Developer bankrupt-property not handed over

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lemonhead

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Hello, I posted this at another site and it was suggested that I come here in the hope of getting some advice. We feel as if we have to just sit and wait for things, which appear to be out of our control, to work out. Can anyone suggest a course of action, someone or some organisation we can talk to?

Hi there, I would appreciate any feedback from the members on what has become a very long drawn out and stressful transaction for us. I will write it in points so as to cause the least amount of confusion to the readers.

1. Booking deposit paid to auctioneer Sept 2005
2. Deposit paid to builder Dec 2005
3. Various completion dates given to us by builder from Jan 2006 until we gave up asking towards summer 2006.
4. Contracts signed by all parties by Summer 2006
5. Stage payment, approximately half of remaining balance paid over in Summer 2006. This transaction also involved the signing over of the land on which the house stood, to us.
6. Final bill sent by builder’s solicitor in June 2006, no snag list had been completed at this stage.
7. From September 2006 we asked, begged and pleaded on an almost weekly basis to have the snag list completed. This did not happen until February 2007.
8. Prior to the snag list being completed we were threatened that the house would be taken from us by the builder unless we paid over the remaining balance….an empty threat presumably but a threat nonetheless.
9. Prior to the snag list being completed we were told, on a number of occasions that we would have to pay some cash to the builder for phantom work, we would not get our house otherwise.
10. After the snag list was completed we were again asked for cash or the house would not be handed over. These requests continued up to and beyond the time when the builder declared bankruptcy.
11. After the snag list was completed, our solicitor advised us to draw down the balance of the total to be held by him until it was to be paid over on the final signing of the contract. This we did.
12. On the declaration of bankruptcy, our solicitor advised us to pay the stamp duty so that the house would be registered in our names. This we did.
13. The matter is now in the hands of the liquidator and it has been put off for another 4 weeks at the very least. Meanwhile, we have no visibility on where this is going or even if it will be resolved in our favour.
14. The full mortgage has been drawn down (but not all paid to builder) and we are paying it off with nothing to show for it.

Has anyone heard of a similar situation?
Any opinions on whether this can work out in our favour?
Should the solicitor be doing more, we are currently four months beyond the completion date on the contract?
Does the purchaser have any rights in any situation when buying a house?
Is there any organization that can advise us on our plight.

I appreciate your help in what is quite a stressful situation for us
 
A few questions:

How far is the house from completion? What works need to be done before you can occupy?

Are any neighbouring houses occupied?

Was the builder registered with Homebond or equivalent?

What is the state of completion of the overall estate? Ie rest of houses, footpaths, roads etc?

Do you know if the builder had a bond with the council for completion of estate works?
 
Hi Vanilla, thanks for your reply
The house is fully finished, snagged etc. No other work needs to be done.
I would say that of the approximately 25 houses, 21 are occupied, three are not finished and then there is ours. Some of the houses have been occupied since Sept/Oct 06
Builder is home bond registered.
Three houses need builders finishes on the inside, Some work needed on road and paths but certainly no more than 2 weeks work.
I can't answer your last question but if you thought it was important to know, I could go and find out.
 
Hmmm. you are the legal owner of the house. The house is finished. what is stopping you from moving in? I think you should mitigate your losses and concentrate- for now- in getting into the house. With my legal hat on I would say that you should instruct your solicitor to give the builder notice that you want to move in and formally request the keys. Or homebond or whoever is now in charge of the estate.

If you don't get a reply, and if I were in your shoes, and not speaking as a solicitor, if there isn't a very good reason not to, I'd be moving in by hook or by crook.

All the rest can be sorted out afterwards.
 
We haven't actually signed the final documents or handed over the final payment so technically we only own part of the house...or so I am told. I feel as if the solicitor is going with the flow rather than fighting on our behalf

thanks again
 
Well you've paid the stamp duty, so you own the site. So the final money held must be in relation to the building agreement. In my opinion I think you should ignore every thing else now and go hell for leather to get into the house. If you have to hand over the money, what is stopping that from happening?

If the house is homebonded- and there is a bond to the council ( I think we can presume there is)- all the rest of the estate will have to be sorted out - homebond will appoint another builder to finish or else the council will draw on the bond- but it could take months- even years.

Make an appointment to see your solicitor. ARe you paying rent or are you being inconvenienced monetarily in some way? If so you could suggest that a certain amount of the final money be held on trust until the issue is sorted out but that if you need to that the rest could be handed over so that you can get into the house. Insist that your solicitor fight this on your behalf. Get your local politician involved- no better time- get the council involved. Fight! ( Not physically now of course!;) )
 
lemonhead said:
I feel as if the solicitor is going with the flow rather than fighting on our behalf
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you've given him a big chunk of change thats sitting in his a/c making him some nice interest :)

lemonhead said:
11. our solicitor advised us to draw down the balance of the total to be held by him until it was to be paid over on the final signing of the contract
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Used to have this trouble with rent, some years ago; the solicitor would ask for the annual rent in April, but it turns out it wasn't due to the landlord until Sept.

Solicitors use high-interest a/c's to hold all our deposits or whatnot, as they are fully entitled to do. I'm just wondering if you think that this could be the reason's behind his laziness (assuming its a LOT of money). Maybe he's just busy
 
paddyd said:
you've given him a big chunk of change thats sitting in his a/c making him some nice interest :)



Used to have this trouble with rent, some years ago; the solicitor would ask for the annual rent in April, but it turns out it wasn't due to the landlord until Sept.

Solicitors use high-interest a/c's to hold all our deposits or whatnot, as they are fully entitled to do. I'm just wondering if you think that this could be the reason's behind his laziness (assuming its a LOT of money). Maybe he's just busy
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I have to say that there are a few people out there that seem to have this idea about solicitors using clients money to make themselves some money on interest. I can't speak for every solicitor in the country but I can say with some authority that this is a flawed argument. First of all law society accounting regulations state that any money earned over €100 must be accounted for to ones clients. Our accounts are audited every year and a report sent to the Law Society to ensure this and the hundreds of other very strict regulations are not flauted.
Second of all, solicitors do not have the time to move money from one account into another to try to do this for the sake of €100. It is just not worth while when we could be earning more money by actually working on someones file. Most of the time the money sits in a client current account and no interest, or negligable interest, is earned. Indeed it is a rare occasion when money sits in a client account for more than the briefest of visits because it is there for a reason and the reason usually comes calling very quickly.
 
I would agree with you, Vanilla, and think that the OP has got great FREE advice from you. They will appreciate that more that irrelevent off-topic comments.
 
When I get cynical, I believe that the solicitor might be working for the builder.
However, when I return to normality I think that the solicitor agreed a set amount with me, thinking that it was going to be straight forward and didn;t expect this extra work. I'm sure there is plenty of lucrative work he can do without technically undermining his role towards me. I can understand this to a degree but surely as my solicitor, I am entitled to expect a job done to the best of his ability, proactively dealing with issues. Instead, it appears that the solicitor merely reacts to notifications from the builders solicitor or the liquidator.
I am trying to figure out if there is some organisation or some other person (maybe another solicitor?) who could advise me of other routes I could take, or the questions I should be asking.
I am not blaming the solicitor for my woes and I recognise that the fault appears to lie with first the builder and then the liquidator, however, I feel as though the rights of the private citizen are easily dismissable and this has left me frustrated and worried about our financial future.

thanks again
 
You are sounding a little defeatist- of course it's hard to blame you in the circumstances. I think you should be more proactive though- it's your house, your estate, your money.

What is stopping you from getting on to Joe Duffy? Or your local councillor. Or your local td?

If your solicitor is a fixed price deal one, then go and see him/her and tell them you will pay them for extra work- as long as they will do it. Tell them to get on to the liquidator- ask is there any reason why you cant pay over the money ( less any disputed damages) and get into the house? Ditto the builders solicitor.

I don't know why you feel there might be some conspiracy between your solicitor and the builder- what profit is there in that for anyone? I doubt it, but if you have a problem with trust in your relationship with your solicitor, if you don't think they will work actively on your behalf, cut your losses and move your file to another solicitor who will. Yes you'll have to pay the first solicitor for the work done to date, yes you will have to pay the second solicitor, but you'll have to pay for this work anyway.
 
I don't want to detract from the serious topic at hand but about 10 years ago I instructed a solicitor, in writing, to use proceeds from the sale of a house to clear a bridging loan. He did not do so and kept Ir£15'000 in his client account for nearly a year. When the bank asked me to clear the loan I realised when had happened. I brought it to his attention and he gave a very qualified and dismissive apology. He also refused to pay the interest that had accrued. Other basic mistakes on his part during conveyancing delayed the sale and the purchase of our new house by months. The issue was never sorted out to my satisfaction and left a very bad taste in my mouth. He is no longer my solicitor.
 
Purple said:
I don't want to detract from the serious topic at hand but about 10 years ago I instructed a solicitor, in writing, to use proceeds from the sale of a house to clear a bridging loan. He did not do so and kept Ir£15'000 in his client account for nearly a year. When the bank asked me to clear the loan I realised when had happened. I brought it to his attention and he gave a very qualified and dismissive apology. He also refused to pay the interest that had accrued. Other basic mistakes on his part during conveyancing delayed the sale and the purchase of our new house by months. The issue was never sorted out to my satisfaction and left a very bad taste in my mouth. He is no longer my solicitor.
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I'm no fan of the legal profession but the actions of one idiotic solicitor do not reflect on the vast majority who are honest and diligent.
 
Purple said:
I don't want to detract from the serious topic at hand but about 10 years ago I instructed a solicitor, in writing, to use proceeds from the sale of a house to clear a bridging loan. He did not do so and kept Ir£15'000 in his client account for nearly a year. When the bank asked me to clear the loan I realised when had happened. I brought it to his attention and he gave a very qualified and dismissive apology. He also refused to pay the interest that had accrued. Other basic mistakes on his part during conveyancing delayed the sale and the purchase of our new house by months. The issue was never sorted out to my satisfaction and left a very bad taste in my mouth. He is no longer my solicitor.
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I'm sorry to hear that. It might be only one solicitor but it reflects badly on the rest of us. Out of interest did you take it any further, with the Law Society or similar?
 
Vanilla said:
I'm sorry to hear that. It might be only one solicitor but it reflects badly on the rest of us. Out of interest did you take it any further, with the Law Society or similar?
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No, I didn't see the point in putting myself through the hassle. I don’t have a very high opinion of the law society and since it was due to stupidity rather than malice I thought it was very unlikely that anything would have been done.
I am very happy with my current solicitor who offers very good value for money and is very accessible.
 
Purple said:
No, I didn't see the point in putting myself through the hassle. I don’t have a very high opinion of the law society and since it was due to stupidity rather than malice I thought it was very unlikely that anything would have been done.
I am very happy with my current solicitor who offers very good value for money and is very accessible.
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I can understand that. But the process of complaint to the Law society would have been a good route for this. You might not have a high opinion of the law society but I can assure you most solicitors live in fear of the law society. People seem to have this idea that self-regulation means no regulation when in this case it is the opposite. In any case the disciplinary tribunal is actually made up of both solicitors and lay people ( I think director of consumer affairs is a member?) and I recently heard from the Registrar of Solicitors that the solicitor members are actually harder on the solicitors up for hearing than the lay people. There is an independant adjudicator if the complainer still isnt happy and you can always appeal to the high court. The vast majority of complaints are sorted out after the first letter without any need to go further though.
 
Not sure what the legal situation is but there isn't a thing (or person ) on this planet that would prevent me from moving into the house if I were you.

I would be well in by now, makes my blood boil just thinking about that sort of thing happening to me :mad::mad::mad:

You've paid the stamp duty move in and who ever comes knocking tell them your happy to pay for the house as well..........fancy a cuppa while you phone your gaffer? :D
 
mprsv1000 said:
Not sure what the legal situation is but there isn't a thing (or person ) on this planet that would prevent me from moving into the house if I were you.

I would be well in by now, makes my blood boil just thinking about that sort of thing happening to me :mad::mad::mad:

You've paid the stamp duty move in and who ever comes knocking tell them your happy to pay for the house as well..........fancy a cuppa while you phone your gaffer? :D
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Now there's something to think about...;)
 
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