Delays in rolling out vaccine

[Paul O Mahoney]

It was the results of a Scottish survey published a couple of weeks ago.
Also cited by Germany and France as their reason for reversing their previous opposition to the policy of a delayed second dose.
Covered extensively in the Irish media at the time.
Ironically the much-maligned AZ jab performed even better than the previous gold standard Pfizer.

Oxford vaccine more effective than Pfizer jab, new figures show

A single shot of either the Oxford-AstraZeneca or Pfizer jab cuts the chance of needing hospital treatment by more than 90 per cent, 'real world' results from the NHS show.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It reduces hospitalisation by 90%

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I’m really sick of listening to Pearse Doherty criticising the roll-out as if it was a complete shambles. Clearly in the Narnia-world of opposition politics, nothing ever goes wrong, no delays, no hiccups, no glitches. It must be wonderful to live in such a fairytale world (though it seems to work less well in NI where SF are in power?).
This is a roll-out of a programme unprecedented in recent times. Hardly surprising that a few GPs didn’t get the vaccine delivered on time. Pearse seems to think that the Government can vaccinate people with vaccines that haven’t yet arrived.

It's not just Pearce many think it's simply inject the vaccine and everything is dandy.

 

[Wahaay]

It reduces hospitalisation by 90%

The Edinburgh University survey found that by four weeks the Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines cut the risk of hospitalisation from Covid19 by up to 85 per cent and 94 per cent, respectively.
As virtually everyone who dies from Covid-19 does so in hospital if the rate of hospitalisation is reduced by more than 90% one would assume one's chances of dying are also reduced by that amount.
The number of over-85s admitted to hospital in Scotland with C-19 has dropped to virtually zero.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

The Edinburgh University survey found that by four weeks the Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines cut the risk of hospitalisation from Covid19 by up to 85 per cent and 94 per cent, respectively.
As virtually everyone who dies from Covid-19 does so in hospital if the rate of hospitalisation is reduced by more than 90% one would assume one's chances of dying are also reduced by that amount.
The number of over-85s admitted to hospital in Scotland with C-19 has dropped to virtually zero.

I read the article and to assume that a reduction in hospitalisation reduces deaths by the same amount is tenuous at best.
The article, and this is a Daily Mail article, does say that deaths reduced by 40% in the over 75s which is great but it doesn't say anything about over 85 deaths specifically.
It certainly doesn't say that there was a 90% reduction in deaths of any cohort.

Obviously reducing hospitalisation is a great result and vaccines are making an impact, even here it has been said that the reduction in infections and hospitalisation in the elderly is probably due to vaccinating the elderly.

We've gone off topic and frankly what happens in the UK or elsewhere doesn't really interest me unless is proper scientific evidence.

 

[Wahaay]

I read the article and to assume that a reduction in hospitalisation reduces deaths by the same amount is tenuous at best.
The article, and this is a Daily Mail article, does say that deaths reduced by 40% in the over 75s which is great but it doesn't say anything about over 85 deaths specifically.
It certainly doesn't say that there was a 90% reduction in deaths of any cohort.

Obviously reducing hospitalisation is a great result and vaccines are making an impact, even here it has been said that the reduction in infections and hospitalisation in the elderly is probably due to vaccinating the elderly.

We've gone off topic and frankly what happens in the UK or elsewhere doesn't really interest me unless is proper scientific evidence.

What is happening in the UK, Israel and elsewhere is real-time scientific evidence.
Vaccines, even after a single dose, are dramatically reducing hospital admissions and therefore deaths.
Results from the Scottish NHS are prompting previously sceptical governments such as France and Germany to change their policies on the age groups being vaxxed and the delay between first and second jabs.
This is clear scientific evidence not being disputed by anyone except the more bonkers anti-vaxxers.
As for delays, that's really no-one elses's fault except the EU.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

What is happening in the UK, Israel and elsewhere is real-time scientific evidence.
Vaccines, even after a single dose, are dramatically reducing hospital admissions and therefore deaths.
Results from the Scottish NHS are prompting previously sceptical governments such as France and Germany to change their policies on the age groups being vaxxed and the delay between first and second jabs.
This is clear scientific evidence not being disputed by anyone except the more bonkers anti-vaxxers.
As for delays, that's really no-one elses's fault except the EU.

Again all this is widely known and understood what I was questioning was your assertion that 90% reduction in hospitalisation equated to 90% reduction in deaths particularly in the elderly.
That's what you stated and the link you supplied didn't say that.

 

[Wahaay]

Again all this is widely known and understood what I was questioning was your assertion that 90% reduction in hospitalisation equated to 90% reduction in deaths particularly in the elderly.
That's what you stated and the link you supplied didn't say that.

So you think large numbers of people are dying from Coronavirus at home ?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

So you think large numbers of people are dying from Coronavirus at home ?

No

 

[Wahaay]

No

Ergo, if the risk of hospitalisation is reduced by more than 90% on the first dose of a vaccine your chances of dying or getting seriously ill enough to warrant hospitalisation are therefore reduced accordingly.
This was the finding from the Scottish NHS survey with both Pfizer and AZ showing superb immunity.

 

[joe sod]

Are the government preparing the ground for asking the UK for spare vaccines. On Sunday Paul Reid said they would take vaccines from wherever they could get them , then Simon Harris more or less said the same thing yesterday. I'd say there is a much higher likelihood of them asking the UK for assistance than authorising the sputnik vaccines even if the ema allows it

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Are the government preparing the ground for asking the UK for spare vaccines. On Sunday Paul Reid said they would take vaccines from wherever they could get them , then Simon Harris more or less said the same thing yesterday. I'd say there is a much higher likelihood of them asking the UK for assistance than authorising the sputnik vaccines even if the ema allows it

Well Martin has said today that the UK doesn't have any spare vaccines.

No country is going to be sending vaccines to other countries when there are so many issues surrounding supply.

It's still not known if there will be a need for booster vaccines or if getting a covid vaccine will become an annual event.

If the producers especially Astrazeneca/Moderna simply got their production to what they said it would be it would be a better solution.

Astrazeneca are meant to supply 40m (400000 for us) doses to the EU members by the end of March, the original was 90m.
I read that up to the 5th of March only 10.7m were delivered it doesn't seem they can fulfil the new target.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

J&J facing supply issues of Covid vaccine to EU

Johnson & Johnson has told the European Union it is facing supply issues that may complicate plans to deliver 55 million doses of its Covid-19 vaccine to the bloc in the second quarter of the year, an EU official has said.

www.rte.ie

And now this.

 

[joe sod]

Well Martin has said today that the UK doesn't have any spare vaccines.

Yes I saw that but sure give me some credit for predicting government actions from their spin, I knew something was in the air when they started suggesting getting vaccines from the UK, before that it was a No No

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Yes I saw that but sure give me some credit for predicting government actions from their spin, I knew something was in the air when they started suggesting getting vaccines from the UK, before that it was a No No

Like everything Joe with MM he likes to be seen to be trying.
But more importantly he said he knew what the answer would be , so why ask?

 

[Tuscany]

So you think large numbers of people are dying from Coronavirus at home ?

Likely that some, probably quite a large number, who died in nursing homes and other residential settings did so without ever being hospitalised.

 

[tomdublin]

I'd say there is a much higher likelihood of them asking the UK for assistance than authorising the sputnik vaccines even if the ema allows it

If the EMA authorized Sputnik yet the Irish government still refused to use it and instead chose to leave large segments of the population unvaccinated for months this would be unconscionable IMO.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

If the EMA authorized Sputnik yet the Irish government still refused to use it and instead chose to leave large segments of the population unvaccinated for months this would be unconscionable IMO.

If it is authorised, and that's going to be a few months from now, I can't see the EU ordering a huge amount if any and that would allow individual countries to buy independently.

If and this is a big If the other producers get the finger out and fulfil contract quantity there maybe no reason to buy it in great quantities

 

[Merowig]

No country is going to be sending vaccines to other countries when there are so many issues surrounding supply.

Not true

Romania is donating 200,000 doses to Moldova coming from the EU allocated quota to Romania

Moldova Receives First COVID-19 Shots From Romania

Romania delivered the first batch of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 shots to Moldova on February 27, enabling one of Europe’s poorest countries to begin its vaccination campaign next week.

www.rferl.org

India is giving millions of free vaccine doses to at least six countries
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/india-to-give-free-vaccine-doses-to-6-countries/videoshow/80329092.cms

Free vaccines and India’s humanitarian diplomacy

India is leveraging its manufacturing heft by embarking on humanitarian diplomacy — the supply of free vaccines to countries in its extended neighborhood.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Israel is giving vaccine doses to the Czech republic, Honduras, Guatemala, the Palestinians and other countries are also queuing up
e.g.
Israel, Denmark and Austria have also agreed to co-develop and produce vaccines here.

The United Arab Emirates send vaccines to Egypt, the Seychelles and the Palestinians, China is donating to Arab countries as well

 

[odyssey06]

Well Martin has said today that the UK doesn't have any spare vaccines.

No country is going to be sending vaccines to other countries when there are so many issues surrounding supply.

It's still not known if there will be a need for booster vaccines or if getting a covid vaccine will become an annual event.

If the producers especially Astrazeneca/Moderna simply got their production to what they said it would be it would be a better solution.

Astrazeneca are meant to supply 40m (400000 for us) doses to the EU members by the end of March, the original was 90m.
I read that up to the 5th of March only 10.7m were delivered it doesn't seem they can fulfil the new target.

I wouldn't go to Germany or France and ask them to give us the vaccines with nothing in return.
I'd ask for them to give us X vaccines which we will use now and which we will refund with X vaccines from future supply.
Assuming they aren't going to use the vaccines in the short term and we are.

In some good news,
IRELAND IS TO receive an additional 46,500 Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine doses in March under the EU procurement framework, Taoiseach Micheál Martin has confirmed... it comes as the EU Commission confirmed this morning that the bloc had secured an additional four million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine to be distributed across EU states over the next two weeks.

Ireland to receive 46,500 additional Pfizer doses this month, Taoiseach confirms

“When they get here, they will be administered quickly,” the Taoiseach said.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[Leo]

But more importantly he said he knew what the answer would be , so why ask?

Because the opposition would have continued to beat him up over it to try score a few easy points even thought they also knew what the answer would be.