Credit Union prayer - time to leave this anachronism behind

Complainer said:
I'm wondering about which would be the best tactic - do I try and raise it with no advance notice from the floor of the AGM?

Or do I submit a resolution to the board beforehand, in the hope that they will include it on the Agenda.

On the other hand, I'm wondering if the board will just go with tradition and block the resolution, in the absence of any clear guidelines about such resolutions.
Click to expand...

Well you can do both? Submit the resolution and if that doesn't work bring it up at the AGM.
 
T McGibney said:
On that basis, I presume that it is equally disrespectful to ask people to stand for the national anthem at public events, if they do not wish to do so?
Click to expand...

I don't see what the national anthem has to do with the discussion in hand?
 
Bronte said:
Well you can do both? Submit the resolution and if that doesn't work bring it up at the AGM.
Click to expand...
I might well do that - the disadvantage is that it allows them to prepare their response or to say "we already told you NO on that one".
 
Jim2007 said:
....

We've had Muslim children at both my kids communions and my son's Godfather is Muslim, even the Catholic church did not have a problem with that.

...

Jim (Switzerland)
Click to expand...

That can't be true. Godparents must be Catholic, as their purpose is to bring the child up in the Catholic faith if something happens to the parents. A godparent must be baptised, and Catholic, and over 16.

In fact, according to this link (http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/godpar.htm), there are many exclusions, including being a prostitute, or being married outside a church.
 
JoeBallantin said:
That can't be true. Godparents must be Catholic, as their purpose is to bring the child up in the Catholic faith if something happens to the parents. A godparent must be baptised, and Catholic, and over 16.
Click to expand...
There is no enforcement of these rules.
 
Bronte said:
I don't see what the national anthem has to do with the discussion in hand?
Click to expand...

Why not? Observing the national anthem is an established custom at meetings of certain groups and associations, as is similarly the saying of prayers. Both customs can generate controversy amongst members of such groups or associations who do not agree with such customs, hence the IRFU's adoption of 'Ireland's Call', and the current discussion here.
 
If people can put forward a compelling case for the banning of the National Anthem then I'm all for it. Who is supposedly insulted by it? (We are a divided island, .. so there are valid political reasons I'd imagine for an All Ireland Rugby team not to use a National Anthem from just one part of the island)

I personnally can't think of any great reasons, besides the political ones.

I think respecting an anthem (of a country that is known to exist) is very different to respecting invocations to an invisible god, who almost certainly doesn't exist, and who the vast majority act as if they don't believe in.
 
JoeBallantin said:
That can't be true. Godparents must be Catholic, as their purpose is to bring the child up in the Catholic faith if something happens to the parents. A godparent must be baptised, and Catholic, and over 16.
Click to expand...


Both myself and my brother are CoI and we are godparents to Roman Catholic children. Church didn't have any issue with this.
 
The Credit Union movement in Ireland is based on Christian ethos. The credit union prayer, it's called an 'invocation', is based on the writings of St. Francis, who, I think, pre-dates the Reformation and was a generally good egg! It does no harm, it could be multi-faith if you think 'Allah' instead of 'Lord'. If we had a Moslem elected to the Board I think we would establish first whether or not the invocation offends him/her. The invocation is NOT read out at AGM. I am not particularly religious but think we have far more pressing problems in the credit union movememt that the invocation.

I cannot find any reference to the prayer/invocation in the Standard Rules. I cannot see how this would offend anyone except atheists who may remain silent during the saying of the invocation.

Slim
credit union director
 
I and my other half as are members of my family members of credit unions. I never knew they had any kind of prayer or invocation (what is the difference) before meetings.

As for the suggestion that one should stand outside the meeting while the prayer is being said. It's not a quesion of being insulted. How about not bringing any religion of any persusaion into the meeting instead.
 
Anyone1 said:
Why not stay outside of the meeting until the prayer is over? In my opinion, you appear to be just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Click to expand...
So what, I have to wait outside the door and peep in to see if they have finished?

Slim said:
The Credit Union movement in Ireland is based on Christian ethos. The credit union prayer, it's called an 'invocation', is based on the writings of St. Francis, who, I think, pre-dates the Reformation and was a generally good egg! It does no harm, it could be multi-faith if you think 'Allah' instead of 'Lord'. If we had a Moslem elected to the Board I think we would establish first whether or not the invocation offends him/her. The invocation is NOT read out at AGM. I am not particularly religious but think we have far more pressing problems in the credit union movememt that the invocation.

I cannot find any reference to the prayer/invocation in the Standard Rules. I cannot see how this would offend anyone except atheists who may remain silent during the saying of the invocation.
Click to expand...
Well, it does offend me. It offends me that the movement is bringing religion into a community organisation. There may be a history of a Christian ethos, but that is in the past. There is nothing in the current rules or articles about a Christian ethos. There is a principle of non-discrimination based on religion that is being ignored.

Remaining silent is really just expecting some people to ignore the issue. What is the justification for including the prayer?
 
Complainer said:
...What is the justification for including the prayer?
Click to expand...

There isn't one and I agree it has no place in secular society. I attend mediation with buddahists and they do chant "prayers" or something like prayer, but I have no problem with this, it's part of the "spiritual" aspect of living. But I would be rightly put off by prayers or any such like in the secular world. If it's harmless or meaningless, then that's even more reason to stop it. And if it has some meaning, then it must be a religious meaning which has no place in a secular enviornment.
 
We would all do well to actually read the CU Invocation. It invokes the Lord to assist the Board to deal with people in a christian and compassionate manner. In todays climate I would say we need plenty of this.
 
CUJimmy said:
We would all do well to actually read the CU Invocation. It invokes the Lord to assist the Board
Click to expand...
But why not Thor or Isis or Shiva or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Bertrand Russell's celestial teapot or ...
 
CUJimmy said:
We would all do well to actually read the CU Invocation. It invokes the Lord to assist the Board to deal with people in a christian and compassionate manner. In todays climate I would say we need plenty of this.
Click to expand...
What Lord is this you refer to?
 
CUJimmy said:
We would all do well to actually read the CU Invocation. It invokes the Lord to assist the Board to deal with people in a christian and compassionate manner. In todays climate I would say we need plenty of this.
Click to expand...

And you'd be happy enough to sit through a sungod ceremony and watch a child get sacrificed?

My point being that however reasonable your religion seems to you,.. it will seem totally silly to those not inculcated in it.


Your statement pre-supposes the existence of a Lord, and it also pre-supposes that other people would want to follow a lord who has wiped out the majority of the human race several times, according to legend.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top