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bearishbull

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have to go to court next week,i used "offensive language" to a guard one saturday night last summer and he summonsed me under sect 5 criminal justice act 1994,im being charged with "offensive language" under "offensive conduct " section but no other charges .basically i cursed when talking to guard. i was listening to a busker on grafton street after a nightclub and had sobered up ,the garda came along and ordered the busker to clear off ,i said "will ya ever leave him alone for f*cks sake" and the garda asked me for id etc and said he would arrest me ,i said fine as i 've done nothing and am sober so cant do me for being drunk and disorderly,he seemed to want to find a reason to charge me and this is why he came up with the "offensive language" charge.
found an article saying
Under section five, it is an offence for anyone to engage in offensive conduct in a public place between 12pm and 7am or at any other time after being requested by a garda to stop. A person found guilty of such an offence is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €635.

Offensive conduct is “any unreasonable behaviour” which, having regard to all the circumstances, is “likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance” to other people.
How could the guard claim i caused him "serious offence" ? a guard encounters such language many times a day/week and the judge must surely know that?
Also he never requested me to stp the "offensive conduct" .
am i gonna get a criminal record or just give money to poor box?any point in contesting the charges or just accept a fine?
 
Just because he hears it all the time is no reason for him to sit back and take it.

This is a civil matter rather than criminal, so no criminal record.

Can't see how you could contest it, best bet is to apologise, possibly even directly to the Garda before the court date.
 
With cases like this , is it any wonder people have a low opinion of the Garda? They bring it on themselves. Small bit of power and they think they're so high and mighty!
I thought buskers were legal anyway?
 
Leo said:
Just because he hears it all the time is no reason for him to sit back and take it.

This is a civil matter rather than criminal, so no criminal record.

Can't see how you could contest it, best bet is to apologise, possibly even directly to the Garda before the court date.
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it is criminal,its under the criminal justice act 1994 and he doesnt have to take rudeness but he doesnt have to be a pr1ck either.
the DPP issued the summons so i cant go to guard and apologise and expect him to drop charges cos he cant. i bet he wont turn up ,judges must get annoyed at guards wasting court time/resources for someone using "offensive language".
 
redbhoy said:
With cases like this , is it any wonder people have a low opinion of the Garda? They bring it on themselves. Small bit of power and they think they're so high and mighty!
I thought buskers were legal anyway?
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it was 4 in the morning and he had a big crowd listening
 
What do you expect, if this was in the US, you would think twice about saying that to a policeman. The problem here is that the Gardai dont have the same level of authority and dont command the same level of respect that US police do.

Either way, its your own fault you've ended up in court.
 
SteelBlue05 said:
What do you expect, if this was in the US, you would think twice about saying that to a policeman. The problem here is that the Gardai dont have the same level of authority and dont command the same level of respect that US police do.

Either way, its your own fault you've ended up in court.
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yeah but getting a criminal record for cursing ? maybe a fixed penalty fine but going to court for this is nonsense.
 
bearishbull said:
yeah but getting a criminal record for cursing ? maybe a fixed penalty fine but going to court for this is nonsense.
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Dont worry, you wont get a criminal record. Probation Act I'd say, or it may not end up in court at all. Certainly wont get a criminal record. I mean I was punched in the face about 3 years ago and the guy ended just getting a fine (i.e. pay into the poor box) and no criminal record.

I would agree that going to court for this is crazy, a fixed penalty would be appropriate. Did you go into the Garda Station to apologise to the Gaurd for what happened, that would have sorted it all out.
 
SteelBlue05 said:
Dont worry, you wont get a criminal record. Probation Act I'd say, or it may not end up in court at all. Certainly wont get a criminal record. I mean I was punched in the face about 3 years ago and the guy ended just getting a fine (i.e. pay into the poor box) and no criminal record.

I would agree that going to court for this is crazy, a fixed penalty would be appropriate. Did you go into the Garda Station to apologise to the Gaurd for what happened, that would have sorted it all out.
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i didnt go to the garda station ,he cant stop it once the summons is issued by DPP's office.court date is next week so not much time to get it dropped if thats possible.
 
bearishbull said:
i didnt go to the garda station ,he cant stop it once the summons is issued by DPP's office.court date is next week so not much time to get it dropped if thats possible.
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So what exactly happened after you told him to "leave him alone for f&cks sake", did you not apologise to him then? Sounds like you give him no alternative but to bring it to this conclusion, he could hardly let you off as it would be an undermining of Gardai authority.
 
SteelBlue05 said:
So what exactly happened after you told him to "leave him alone for f&cks sake", did you not apologise to him then? Sounds like you give him no alternative but to bring it to this conclusion, he could hardly let you off as it would be an undermining of Gardai authority.
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he asked for my details and i gave him my ID and complied with his orders to move along but he seemed smug and said "i'll see ya in court" ,i had been saying i've done nothing wrong so bring me to court of you like,i didnt realise that using f word was an offense ,i use it everyday as its part of the vernacular.i wasnt cursing to be offensive .i wouldnt back down either which is probably why he followed through on the summons.
 
bearishbull said:
i wasnt cursing to be offensive .i wouldnt back down either which is probably why he followed through on the summons.
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Well, thats the problem. If you are going to play stubborn and try to undermine a Garda then what do you expect, he will apply the law. If you didnt then he would have let it go.
 
i didnt realise that using f word was an offense ,i use it everyday as its part of the vernacular.i wasnt cursing to be offensive
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Me either, and don't think it is - pressuming your version is accurate, then I reckon the judge will throw it out - the problem is that the Guard will probably lie and say that you actually used the word in a derogatory way to him. I must ask some of my legal friends what their take is on this.
 
bearishbull said:
the DPP issued the summons so i cant go to guard and apologise and expect him to drop charges cos he cant.
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It's not about getting him to drop the charges, it's about appearing to be remorseful when you go to court.
 
Leo said:
bearishbull said:
the DPP issued the summons so i cant go to guard and apologise and expect him to drop charges cos he cant. quote]

It's not about getting him to drop the charges, it's about appearing to be remorseful when you go to court.
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im not apologising as i dont feel i did anything illegal. maybe im too stuborn,i'll let the judge decide.
 
bearishbull said:
it is criminal,its under the criminal justice act 1994 and he doesnt have to take rudeness but he doesnt have to be a pr1ck either.
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This is neither a civil nor a criminal issue but it might help if you paid heed to the . :rolleyes:
bearishbull said:
im not apologising as i dont feel i did anything illegal. maybe im too stuborn,i'll let the judge decide.
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If you feel that strongly about it then you should challenge the constitutionality of the law in question on the basis that it curtails your right to free speech. I'm sure that the ICCL or even the [broken link removed] might be willing to support you.
 
bearishbull said:
im not apologising as i dont feel i did anything illegal. maybe im too stuborn,i'll let the judge decide.
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WADR, bearishbull, maybe you should switch around the terms of your username...?

Smart-mouthing a Gárda in the middle of Grafton Street, in the small hours of the morning ('sober' or not), getting stroppy with him, and then going to court and refusing to apologise...? You must be some kinda wise guy! What'll you do if the charge sticks, 'whack' the Judge? :D
 
Just out of curiousity and to settle an ongoing discussion , if a member of the garda siochana uses bad language without any provocation does one have a case to bring to court?
 
bearishbull said:
i didnt realise that using f word was an offense ,i use it everyday as its part of the vernacular.i wasnt cursing to be offensive .i wouldnt back down either which is probably why he followed through on the summons.
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As a general principle, ignorance of the law is no defence.
 
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