Contract Signing - registered owner of house

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niallkelly14

Registered User
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hi

we are due to sign contracts today to buy 2nd hand house. Vendor is not registered owner of house - there is a folio with a transfer showing and the vendor application in place. The vendors solicitor has given an undertaking to ensure that registration is completed timely

Our solicitor says this is quite normal

I would just like your views on this as we are new to this. Say if in 6 months time the Land Registry decide the vendor is not wntitled to sell the property - where does that leave us. Can we then go back to the vendors solicitors undertaking in this case??

I dont have any reason to suspect anything amiss here but would like your views re this - is this pretty norm for the course
 
Our last solicitor didn't bother to register us as owners with the land registry, even though he took the fee, so when we sold the house four years later we were not the legal owners either, as far as the land registry was concerned.
 
Vanilla said:
I really wonder what you are paying a solicitor for?

It's completely normal.:rolleyes:
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But if you are new to the whole process of buying a house how can you know it's normal or not?

Solicitors can sometimes get things wrong (they are only human after all) or can be bad at explaining how important or unimportant something is.

It has been my experience that the more questions you ask the better you understand the legal process and the happier you feel about it - and that is where this forum can be such a help.
 
thanks guys

as efm said i just wnated to be clear on it for my own sanity. I think its bizarre that solicitors do not complete title registration on purchase (what are they being paid for?) but thats another matter i suppose
 
niallkelly14 said:
thanks guys

as efm said i just wnated to be clear on it for my own sanity. I think its bizarre that solicitors do not complete title registration on purchase (what are they being paid for?) but thats another matter i suppose
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In fairness to solicitors, as I understand it, it is not the solicitors that cause all the delay but that the land registry office can be quite slow.

Also, a solicitors undertaking can be taken pretty much as gospel - again, as I understand it, when a solicitor issues an undertaking she / he is putting their personal and professional reputation behind it and very few will do so unless they are 100% happy.
 
efm said:
Also, a solicitors undertaking can be taken pretty much as gospel - again, as I understand it, when a solicitor issues an undertaking she / he is putting their personal and professional reputation behind it and very few will do so unless they are 100% happy.
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The same applies to anyone in business, from a plumber to a solicitor. I do not accept the inference that a lawyers word in worth more than anyone else's. They are prone to the same human failings as the rest of us.
 
efm said:
But if you are new to the whole process of buying a house how can you know it's normal or not?

Solicitors can sometimes get things wrong (they are only human after all) or can be bad at explaining how important or unimportant something is.

It has been my experience that the more questions you ask the better you understand the legal process and the happier you feel about it - and that is where this forum can be such a help.
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That applies to everything. Do you second guess every professional you employ to give you advice? If the doctor prescribes me a certain medication should I second guess him cause we all know they do make mistakes?

As for undertakings - these are taken very seriously by solicitors - and by the law society. If a solicitor gives an undertaking then they must fulfill it on pain of misconduct charges from the Law society.
 
Vanilla said:
That applies to everything. Do you second guess every professional you employ to give you advice? If the doctor prescribes me a certain medication should I second guess him cause we all know they do make mistakes? ....
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Definately. I have often asked for a 2nd opinion. Thats just good sense.
 
In my opinion that is faintly ridiculous. Where does it end? You will never be happy because the second person could be wrong too.

There are always circumstances when a second opinion is useful. But not in a standard run of the mill conveyance or a standard rull of the mill every day prescription.
 
Vanilla said:
In my opinion that is faintly ridiculous. Where does it end? You will never be happy because the second person could be wrong too.

There are always circumstances when a second opinion is useful. But not in a standard run of the mill conveyance or a standard rull of the mill every day prescription.
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I do like asking the doctors if there are any cheaper alternative drugs when I do get prescriptions though. Amazing how many times the doctors will automatically give you the branded ones insteads of the generic ones!
Not comparing this to solicitors though. Just throwing it out there!!
 
Sunny said:
I do like asking the doctors if there are any cheaper alternative drugs when I do get prescriptions though. Amazing how many times the doctors will automatically give you the branded ones insteads of the generic ones!
Not comparing this to solicitors though. Just throwing it out there!!
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Actually don't know why I related that story. Very bored this afternoon.
 
Vanilla said:
In my opinion that is faintly ridiculous. Where does it end? You will never be happy because the second person could be wrong too.

There are always circumstances when a second opinion is useful. But not in a standard run of the mill conveyance or a standard rull of the mill every day prescription.
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You made the sweeping generalisation of "second guess every professional"
You didn't make the distinction "run of the mill everyday" stuff in your original comment. Though tbh theres lots of run of the mill stuff I'd get a second opinion on. I recently got a boiler replaced. If I'd accepted the first opinion I would have spent about €800 more than I needed to. Recently got a 2nd opinion from a hospital consultant about something for someone in the family. It confirmed what the 1st opinion siad which was reassuring When I was buying my house we had difficulty with the what our solictor was telling us. So asked for and then saw a different solictor in the same firm and he completely contradicted the 1st solictor, and his advice made more sense to us.
 
Sunny said:
I do like asking the doctors if there are any cheaper alternative drugs when I do get prescriptions though. Amazing how many times the doctors will automatically give you the branded ones insteads of the generic ones!
Not comparing this to solicitors though. Just throwing it out there!!
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Amazing how many will throw drugs at you too. When you might be ok with out them.
 
Vanilla said:
There are always circumstances when a second opinion is useful. But not in a standard run of the mill conveyance or a standard rull of the mill every day prescription.
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But my point is if you have never bought or sold a house before how can you know whether your conveyancing is run of the mill or not or what parts of it are run of the mill?

And solicitors can make mistakes, even in run of the mill conveyancing.

And it's not as if the OP is asking another solicitor for a legal opinion, they just posted a question on a public forum.
 
efm said:
But my point is if you have never bought or sold a house before how can you know whether your conveyancing is run of the mill or not or what parts of it are run of the mill?

And solicitors can make mistakes, even in run of the mill conveyancing.

And it's not as if the OP is asking another solicitor for a legal opinion, they just posted a question on a public forum.
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Ok, ok, I concede. You do have a point. :eek:
 
hi all

thanks for the responses, nice to see the lengthy debate that ensued. Just wanted to clarify things really and everything you have said is in tandem with what our solicitor has told us - just seems a bit daft really, you wouldnt buy a car without getting a change of ownership so to rely on a solicitor undertaking for a purchase over 300k given that the solicitor should, in many cases, have ensured the transfer of title has occured anyway!!!
 
Common misconception. Conveyancing could be better done by monkeys. All solicitors do is change the names and addresses on the folio.

The Land Registry in certain areas of the country takes in excess of 7 years to complete a registration of title - particularly where it is a housing estate and a big subdivision situation.

In these circumstances, if you want to sell/buy one of the properties, you either (a) wait until dealing is complete or (b) purchase on a dealing.

Talk to your local politicians when they come knocking on the door for the vote and ask them when they are going to provide adequate resources for the Land Registry/Property Registration Authority. Believe me, it would make my work greatly easier if I was not constantly trying to track down/ hurry up dealings.

mf

mf
 
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