Conon Pope's Irish Times article: knock 20% off mortgage repayments fortnighlty pmts

To save people reading this long thread, I have amended my original reply.

Are these numbers correct?

300,000 @ 5% for 30 years will result in a monthly repayment of €1610.46

If you pay €805 in the middle of January, instead of at the end of January, you will save €1.55 in interest. If you do this every month in the year, you will save €18.57 that year. In other words, your mortgage will be €18.57 lower at the end of that year.You can round this up to €20 to allow for interest on interest saved.


This is the correct way of looking at it.
 
To save people reading this long thread, I have amended my original reply.

Are these numbers correct?

300,000 @ 5% for 30 years will result in a monthly repayment of €1610.46

If you pay €805 in the middle of January, instead of at the end of January, you will save €1.55 in interest. If you do this every month in the year, you will save €18.57 that year. In other words, your mortgage will be €18.57 lower at the end of that year.You can round this up to €20 to allow for interest on interest saved.


This is the correct way of looking at it.
Agree with all that but why wait until the middle of January? Why not the start? Or December? Why not just pay the whole mortgage off in the first month and not pay any interest at all? Ridiculous articles by the Irish Times. Most people, I presume, pay their mortgage each month as soon as they get paid. These articles are confusing and mis-leading.

1. As pointed out by Brendan and others, the original article was 100% incorrect when it stated you could save 20% by paying twice a month instead of once a month. This is not true.

2. Then to make a big song and dance about saving thousands by paying every fortnight instead of once a month. You're making extra payments! Of course you'll pay less interest. You'll save money over the course of the mortgage but it's costing you more money every month. YOU'RE MAKING EXTRA PAYMENTS! (What's the fortnight thing got to do with it anyway? You could make your extra payments once a month anyway).

Poor, poor journalism from the Irish Times I'm afraid.
 
Poor, poor journalism from the Irish Times I'm afraid.

To be fair to Conor Pope, his stuff is usually good.

I am assuming that finance is not his area of expertise. He checked with Frank Conway and Karl Deeter and he must have misunderstood them.

I assume that the artice was checked by someone else or referred to one of their financial journalists. It's odd that they did not pick this up.

Brendan
 
To be fair to Conor Pope, his stuff is usually good.

I am assuming that finance is not his area of expertise. He checked with Frank Conway and Karl Deeter and he must have misunderstood them.

I assume that the artice was checked by someone else or referred to one of their financial journalists. It's odd that they did not pick this up.

Brendan

Sweeping assumption there Brendan.
You are assuming that newspapers do adequate fact checking. I have never seen any evidence of this.
 
Mixed messages on paying mortgages fortnightly



CONOR POPE, Consumer Affairs Correspondent
MANY MORTGAGE holders have been told by their banks that they cannot start paying their loans fortnightly rather than monthly because internal systems did not allow it.
This is despite the fact that banks have assured this newspaper that such switching was possible.
By paying a mortgage fortnightly instead of monthly, more than €50,000 can be knocked off a €300,000 mortgage over the course of a 30-year term.
A report in this newspaper’s Pricewatch section yesterday incorrectly stated these savings would come at no additional immediate cost to the mortgage holder.
The savings outlined only accrue because a person pays 26 fortnightly payments as opposed to 12 monthly ones, effectively equalling an extra month’s payment each year which comes off the capital and reduces the term of the mortgage.
While some savings can be made by simply splitting payments from once a month to twice a month, they are comparatively small as the mortgage holder is not paying off the capital any faster.
After the article appeared, some bank call centres were said to have been inundated with calls from mortgage holders with many callers being told the banks had no facility to cater for anything other than monthly repayments.
Some callers to Ulster Bank were told that the bank would only accept payments on a monthly basis but when contacted by this newspaper yesterday morning, a spokeswoman repeated what we had been told last week and stressed that the bank would facilitate more frequent payments.
She said this message was being communicated to all staff.
Several readers said they had called the AIB and were told it was not possible to pay once a fortnight but again, when contacted by this newspaper, the bank spokesman said it would facilitate more regular payments.
Callers to Permanent TSB meanwhile said they too had been told that it was not technically possible to switch to fortnightly payments, contrary to what a spokesman told The Irish Times last week.
When contacted again yesterday afternoon, a spokesman apologised for providing the paper with inaccurate information.
“Bar exceptional circumstances, Permanent TSB mortgage repayments must be by direct debit which operate once a month and which may vary if interest rates change,” he said.
He said the bank “cannot generally allow customers to replace the agreed monthly direct debit by one or two standing orders per month”.
The EBS, meanwhile, was telling customers they could make fortnightly payments by standing order but warned that as standing orders were not controlled by it, account holders would have to make any adjustments if interest rates went up or down.
For its part, Bank of Ireland said its customers could pay their mortgages on a fortnightly basis. “If a customer wishes to do this, they must send a request in writing to the bank, signed by all parties,” a spokeswoman said.
 
But most people's mortgage repayment probably comes out of a current account earning almost zero interest (as Brendan said above).

I agree that the article overeggs the potential saving and is misleading, but I'm quite happy to pay my NIB tracker in twice-monthly (not fortnightly) payments. The first payment comes out a day or two after I get paid, the second a few days after all my DDs and my credit card. There's no extra "hassle" involved, and it saves me a few quid. It certainly beats watching my balance and moving funds from an interest-earning account into my current account only as needed, which is what you seem (?) to be suggesting as the alternative.

It's absolutely fine if you have an automated twice monthly payment already, I just think the article will lead to a lot of misled people causing themselves and their banks administrative hassle for very little gain
 
Mixed messages on paying mortgages fortnightly

A mealy mouthed response to a flawed article, focussing on a side issue - that banks won't facilitate something that has no saving - rather than the substantive issue - the article was wrong and misleading, there is no saving.
 
It's a bit weasly to gloss over the inaccuracies in a poor article by trying to divert attention to the nasty banks not facilitating customers...

Switching to fortnightly is fine for someone paid fortnightly but it will be very messy for someone paid monthly as the payment dates will move from month to month and you will have some months (2 per year) where 3 fortnights worth of payments (ie pretty much 1.5 times the monthly mortgage amount) will be deducted which I think most people will be unprepared for. And if someone paid monthly has enough to pay 3 fortnights worth in one month, they should pay the whole lot the day they get paid - not let it sit there waiting for the deductions 2 and 4 weeks later. What a mess.
 
A mealy mouthed response to a flawed article, focussing on a side issue - that banks won't facilitate something that has no saving - rather than the substantive issue - the article was wrong and misleading, there is no saving.

I fully agree. He goes for the banks because everyone is angry with the banks. Surprised and disappointed he didn't clarify yesterday's very misleading article.
Would he not talk to his friends Frank Conway and Karl Deeter and present a clear table comparing the total costs/savings of monthly payments, twice monthly payments, and biweekly payments?
And while he's at it - paying off over 15, 20, 25, 30 years.

A couple of small tables wouldn't fill pages of newsprint (as he wants) but it would help clear up some of the mess he has caused. I can only imagine the calls banks and brokers have had yesterday and today. Who is going to believe them if they say the saving is less than €500 in today's money compared with his headline figure of €54,000?
 
Conor Pope was on the Ray D'Arcy Show this morning apologising and explaining the error. In fairness to the guy, he made a mistake and it's just unfortunate that his mistake is read by tens of thousands of people and then heard by thousands more on the radio
 
Switching to fortnightly is fine for someone paid fortnightly but it will be very messy for someone paid monthly as the payment dates will move from month to month and you will have some months (2 per year) where 3 fortnights worth of payments (ie pretty much 1.5 times the monthly mortgage amount) will be deducted which I think most people will be unprepared for. And if someone paid monthly has enough to pay 3 fortnights worth in one month, they should pay the whole lot the day they get paid - not let it sit there waiting for the deductions 2 and 4 weeks later. What a mess.

I am paid monthly.

I pay my mortgage every two weeks, 26 repayments pa.

I chose this so as to repay the loan quicker and pay less interest. NIB offer the facility, no problem.

Yes, correct, you have to watch out for the timing of the three payments in two months. I plan ahead for that.
 
I am paid monthly.

I pay my mortgage every two weeks, 26 repayments pa.

I chose this so as to repay the loan quicker and pay less interest. NIB offer the facility, no problem.

Yes, correct, you have to watch out for the timing of the three payments in two months. I plan ahead for that.
You would save more money by paying monthly the day after you get paid and, twice a year (or whenever you've got the money planned and handy), paying the extra 2 payments worth - also the day you get paid. NIB's online banking is excellent making it very easy to transfer the extra payments from current account to mortgage.
 
Conor Pope has posted a reply on his blog pricewatch. I haven't read it yet but here it is.
[broken link removed]
 
From above blog post.
"But, this post is not about the banks. It is about my mistake. Again, I am sorry. And mortified."
 
+1 to the NIB eletronic banking....was able to transfer regular extra payments to mortgage without any problem. Also as the interest rate fell I left my regular repayments at the original amount. Was shocked at the effect that had....shaved years off.
 
Well, that clears that up then. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and clarified the matter!
 
I've known about this for a while.

Makes perfect sense to make 26 fortnightly payments a year (so 13 months worth), esp. if paid fortnightly (which I am).

Yes, you are overpaying by 1 monthly payment a year but if you always paid it this way you wouldn't notice the overpayments.

So if your monthly mortage would be 1,000 a month, why not pay 500 every two weeks, for 23 weeks in the year.
You will have overpaid 1,000 by year-end. So your mortgage is reduced by an extra 1,000 plus the interest saving.
 
The Jackal

I am concerned that your post might confuse people.

The original article mistakenly suggested that if you pay the same amount of money each month, but part of it two weeks early, you will save thousands.

You are suggesting something different. If you increase your repayments, you will pay off your loan quicker. It does not matter if you do it every two weeks or if you just pay off a lump sum time when it suits you.

Brendan
 
Conor Pope was on the Ray D'Arcy Show this morning apologising and explaining the error. In fairness to the guy, he made a mistake and it's just unfortunate that his mistake is read by tens of thousands of people and then heard by thousands more on the radio

I think what's even more interesting is that it highlights people's general lack of understanding of how interest works. I see it constantly on these pages where people overcomplicate how interest works and get tie themselves up in knots.

Just as a test, say you are on a tracker that is 3% lower than your friend's variable rate mortgage. If you both have a €300k mortgage you'll be 3% of €300k or €9k better off over this year alone. Simple.

If you are both repaying this over 20 years, your repayments will only be €5k lower but you'll also have paid €4k more off the capital.

How many people will happily accept that you are €9k better off over a single year? How many more will say you are only €5k better off? How many more again will tie themselves up in knots trying to solve a problem they've made unnecessarily complicated?
 
I think what's even more interesting is that it highlights people's general lack of understanding of how interest works. I see it constantly on these pages where people overcomplicate how interest works and get tie themselves up in knots.

Just as a test, say you are on a tracker that is 3% lower than your friend's variable rate mortgage. If you both have a €300k mortgage you'll be 3% of €300k or €9k better off over this year alone. Simple.

If you are both repaying this over 20 years, your repayments will only be €5k lower but you'll also have paid €4k more off the capital.

How many people will happily accept that you are €9k better off over a single year? How many more will say you are only €5k better off? How many more again will tie themselves up in knots trying to solve a problem they've made unnecessarily complicated?

It won't be 3% of €300,000 though.
 
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