Completing sale; what is point of no return?
- Thread starter Mel
- Start date
i had signed and was assured that the contracts wouldn't be returned to the vendor until i was satisfied with them. I had other reasons to delay the return of contracts and assumed that this would not happen without my instruction.
The next I heard was a call from the auctioneer because calls were not being returned to the vendor's solicitor from mine. I thought nothing of this because I assumed they were looking for the contracts back. The next day i received a letter from my solicitor with his bill, stating that the sale was 'unlikely' to close the next day and that they needed funds 7 days prior - which means that they set a date for closing without consulting me. I rang to see where we were with everything at that stage and was told that they had also requested my loan cheque also without letting me know.
I'm utterly gobsmacked, because as far as I knew the contracts were still with my solicitor. Have they acted correctly?
The next I heard was a call from the auctioneer because calls were not being returned to the vendor's solicitor from mine. I thought nothing of this because I assumed they were looking for the contracts back. The next day i received a letter from my solicitor with his bill, stating that the sale was 'unlikely' to close the next day and that they needed funds 7 days prior - which means that they set a date for closing without consulting me. I rang to see where we were with everything at that stage and was told that they had also requested my loan cheque also without letting me know.
I'm utterly gobsmacked, because as far as I knew the contracts were still with my solicitor. Have they acted correctly?
If you were in doubt about the purchase you probably should not have signed the loan pack and the contracts. If you had given strict instructions to your Solicitor not to send the contracts until you contacted him, then he shouldn't have sent them. Maybe there was confusion and it was thought that he was to go ahead and send unless you rang him the next day to say you weren't happy with the contracts? Do you now not want to go ahead? If he was told by you do not send then he/she should not have sent them.
there were a couple of details that delayed the contract, including list of contents that they were slow to come up with, and the fact that the council needed to give consent to the sale, and the vendors were then out of the country for one month. so the contract wouldn't have been returned the next day. it's been a while since i signed, and other things have been going on to make me want to delay the closing as long as possible. The communication has been sparse but not confused; i told the secretary to return the council form around the middle of february, but at no stage did i say 'return the contracts', I wasn't copied on any communication that seems to have gone on, and neither was i contacted about this 'closing date' that we missed.
So initially you signed the contracts subject to the list of contents and council consent. It is possible that the contracts were made subject to these being produced or that they were produced in the interim. In which case your solicitor could have still been acting on your instructions when returning the contracts since for all he/she knew the preconditions had been met. If other things had made you want to delay the closing in the interim did you inform your solicitor of these?
If you gave a direct and clear instruction to your solicitor not to return contracts until you gave him an instruction to and he/she returned contracts without that instruction then they were wrong. However it all sounds a little confused to me.
What is the situation now- do you want to purchase or not? If not then you should contact your solicitor immediately- make an appointment and call in and see what the situation is -whether contracts are still conditional or not.
If you gave a direct and clear instruction to your solicitor not to return contracts until you gave him an instruction to and he/she returned contracts without that instruction then they were wrong. However it all sounds a little confused to me.
What is the situation now- do you want to purchase or not? If not then you should contact your solicitor immediately- make an appointment and call in and see what the situation is -whether contracts are still conditional or not.
They were signed subject to a list of pre-contract enquiries, and the council consent was also required.
I still want to go ahead with the sale, but have another project going on and i'll have a better idea of the possible outcome of that in 2 weeks - it would have suited me better to wait until then for sending back teh contracts. As well as returning the contracts, which I can possibly understand as I haven't been in close contact, I cannot work out how a closing date can be set and missed, and the loan cheque requested without my knowledge.
I still want to go ahead with the sale, but have another project going on and i'll have a better idea of the possible outcome of that in 2 weeks - it would have suited me better to wait until then for sending back teh contracts. As well as returning the contracts, which I can possibly understand as I haven't been in close contact, I cannot work out how a closing date can be set and missed, and the loan cheque requested without my knowledge.
The closing date on the contract that i signed could not be met because they hadn't taken the council consent into account. The last I heard was request to the vendors solicitor to set the date at consent + 2 weeks. When I spoke to the secretary yesterday it had been changed to + 5 days, but I had no notification of that change or then that the consent was actually received.
T
thewatcher
Guest
You seem to be under the impression that solicitors contact you at every point in the transaction,in my experience any houses i have ever bought or sold they only contact you when they need you to actually do something, otherwise it's just moves along in the background.
You still don't say if you gave a clear instruction not to hand over the contracts or was it just subject to certain conditions ?
You still don't say if you gave a clear instruction not to hand over the contracts or was it just subject to certain conditions ?
At the very least I believe I should have been made aware that they had changed the date for closing? I would not expect to be involved in every point in the transaction, but surely at the major ones?
I returned the council form that they needed, and followed with an email to hold on to it. I didn't give specific instructions not to send the contract back, but the solicitor had said it would not be going back until I was happy with it. He was also aware of the other issue which meant any delay suited me. I can see that this is probably where the confusion came from: all enquiries being closed out then the contract was technically complete.
But his assistant is telling me this morning that it 'had' to go back because the vendor wanted it back - that's not good enough, they are working for me. I am due to speak to the solicitor himself this afternoon.
I returned the council form that they needed, and followed with an email to hold on to it. I didn't give specific instructions not to send the contract back, but the solicitor had said it would not be going back until I was happy with it. He was also aware of the other issue which meant any delay suited me. I can see that this is probably where the confusion came from: all enquiries being closed out then the contract was technically complete.
But his assistant is telling me this morning that it 'had' to go back because the vendor wanted it back - that's not good enough, they are working for me. I am due to speak to the solicitor himself this afternoon.
They may be working for you but there are two people involved in a contract situation. You and the Vendor and you do not have total control over how things should always pan out. Usually you are given a deadline to send back contracts you can not always delay as much as you want and then decide that you will send them out, the date for return could have long since passed and they may decline to accept them signed. When his assistant says the vendor wanted them back she/he probably meant that if they were not returned vendor was pulling out and so they had to return in order that you are still in a position to purchase. You have said a few times that you wanted things to be delayed because it suited you and you had something else in the pipeline but it is unfair to expect the Vendor to hang around and usually once contracts are issued there is a deadline as to how long a vendor will wait for their return. If you did not give clear instructions to your Solicitor not to send them under any condition until you have instructed him to do so, then I don't have he has acted unfairly.
Thanks for that B2K. The more I learn about all this the more disillusioned I am getting. I am not trying to be unfair to the vendor, they do seem to be under pressure to close, but it was actually the information they failed to disclose at the bidding stage, and later during contract clarification, that has caused the most delay.
As an aside, my mortgage broker has been of more help than anyone through all this, and their level of professionalism better than any of the other parties I have had to deal with, and if anyone wants a recommendation for a broker in the cork area I will pass on their details.
I have today requested a pre-closing inspection with the auctioneer, and he is reluctant to do one, saying he's never been asked for one before. I am going to insist on doing this, but I wonder what would happen at this stage, if, for example, an appliance is not working or a piece of furniture removed that was to be left behind?
Many thanks.
As an aside, my mortgage broker has been of more help than anyone through all this, and their level of professionalism better than any of the other parties I have had to deal with, and if anyone wants a recommendation for a broker in the cork area I will pass on their details.
I have today requested a pre-closing inspection with the auctioneer, and he is reluctant to do one, saying he's never been asked for one before. I am going to insist on doing this, but I wonder what would happen at this stage, if, for example, an appliance is not working or a piece of furniture removed that was to be left behind?
Many thanks.
You have almost no come-back post closure, so I think you're absolutely right to insist on a pre-closure inspection. The auctioneer probably doesn't want the hassle, but I'm startled they haven't been asked for one before. Maybe people in the Cork area are more trusting? 
Absolutely you should do a pre-closure inspection. It's been known before for a vendor to leave junk in the house, garden, shed which means you have to dispose of it.
And check the attic - we did a pre-closure inspection but didn't look in the attic and we inherited some old carpets and broken dining chairs.....
And check the attic - we did a pre-closure inspection but didn't look in the attic and we inherited some old carpets and broken dining chairs.....
You are entitled to reasonable access - this is reasonable. Mind you, do I get the impression this has been a stressful transaction all round and that there might not be a whole lot of good karma floating around? When that happens, all goodwill tends to disappear. Goodwill makes the whole process so much easier.
mf
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Yes, no question. We had a pre-closure inspection on our current house, to find the vendors had left a lot of junk - we got a refund of the price of a skip, after having a last minute negotiation via our solicitor. To say I was livid understates the matter: the vendors had been pressing for a quick sale and then had managed to be the ones drawing out the whole process, and although they'd ended up with three months to move out they still left piles of rubbish, and broken furniture, and hadn't done even the most cursory cleaning (plus it's a stressful time, and you can get very wound up about that kind of thing!).
While it's not likely that you'll have huge problems, you should be able to inspect prior to closing to confirm that any agreed contents and appliances are in place, and that the house hasn't been stripped of fittings. It's unreasonable to expect you to close without that - in your place, I'd stand my ground and refuse to release funds until you've been able to inspect. After all, you'll need to check they haven't left that junk under the stairs...
While it's not likely that you'll have huge problems, you should be able to inspect prior to closing to confirm that any agreed contents and appliances are in place, and that the house hasn't been stripped of fittings. It's unreasonable to expect you to close without that - in your place, I'd stand my ground and refuse to release funds until you've been able to inspect. After all, you'll need to check they haven't left that junk under the stairs...
It's been stressful enough, mostly because I think the vendors were married in the middle of it all. I've been getting lots of sob stories about how busy they are all the way through, as excuses for not doing things that they should, e.g. providing a list of contents which turned out to contain about half of what was promised - I've been pretty patient I think.
I haven't passed back my own tales of woe which are probably worse to be honest.
I have been clear to the auctioneer today that I'm not casting aspertions on the character of his clients but it's just something that needs to be done. They have agreed to do it now, auctioneer sounds a bit fed up, I just hope that they don't form a welcoming committee when I get there
I haven't passed back my own tales of woe which are probably worse to be honest.
I have been clear to the auctioneer today that I'm not casting aspertions on the character of his clients but it's just something that needs to be done. They have agreed to do it now, auctioneer sounds a bit fed up, I just hope that they don't form a welcoming committee when I get there
We closed our purchase on a house today and made a 'walk through' of the property a condition . We did the walk through yesterday because when we viewed the house we noticed lots of bits and pieces in the shed and around the oil tank that we didnt want the expense of inheriting. Thankfully all 'useless' items has been removed!