coming out of 5 year fixed

lucybousy

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We got our mortgage in June 2005 and were given a tracker mortgage. ECB plus 0.85%. We then fixed in October 2006 for five years at 4.99% fixed rate until 30/11/2011. I would like if people could help me to see if we could get our tracker mortgage back by the conditions stated underneath. Below is exact wording on fixed rate letter and general condition 2 of the offer of advance originally accepted by us word for word. I also included a paragraph which related to our tracker under the heading Special Conditions.

AT THE END OF THE FIXED PERIOD: Ulster Bank Ireland Limited may offer to continue the advance for such a period and at such a fixed rate as it may decide. It may also offer alternative available products. If such offer is made and you elect to accept then you must do so in writing, your acceptance to be signed by all parties to the mortgage and to be received by Ulster Bank Ireland Limited. If of no such offer is made or if an offer is made and no acceptance received as prescribed above, then, from the day following the expiry of any option selected above, the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate shall apply in accordance with General condition 2 of the Offer of Advance originally accepted by you being the Bank's General Conditions Relating to Advances by Ulster Bank Ireland Limited House Mortgages Section, which varies the Interest Rate, and the said General Conditions relating to the Advances shall be construed accordingly.

General condition 2 of the Offer of Advance is as follows:

Interest is calculated on the balance outstanding on the home loan at the close of business each day from the date of release of the advance monies until the home load is repaid. Interest so calculated is charged on the last day of the calender month in which release of funds takes place and on the last day of each calender month thereafter until the home loan is repaid. Interest charged to the home loan is included in the outstanding balance on which interest is calculated. The outstanding balance on which interest is calculated will include any overdue repayments and other sums outstanding. Overdue repayments and other sums outstanding will be included in the outstanding balance from the date on which they are debited to the home loan account until the date on which they are discharged. If redemption of the home loan takes place mid month the amount required to redeem the loan will include interest from the first day of the month in which redemption takes place to the date of redemtion. The monthly repayments will vary if changes in the Home Loan Interest Rate occur. Variation in Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate may occur at any time and notice of each variation will be published at least once in a national daily newspaper. Interest is calculated on a compound basis.

Drawdown date of your mortgage will be the date on which the advance monies are issued. If drawdown date is before the date on which direct debits are raised in any given month the first repayment will be on the 1st of the month following the month in which drawdown takes place and will be interest only on the amount drawndown from the date of drawdown until month end. This repayment will be in addition to the number of repayment instalments shown on the schedule of inmportant information. If drawdown date is after the date on which direct debits are raised in any given month interest will be charged on the last day of the month on the amount drawn down from date of drawdown until month end. This interest will be added to your first normal repayment on the 1st of the month following the month which follows the month in which drawdown takes place. In this case the total number of repayments will be as shown under the number of repayment instalments in the schedule of important information.

APR calculation assumes that drawdown of the loan will take place on the 15th of the month following the month in which the Offer of Advance issues.


The Special Conditions Relating To Loan xxxxxxxx:

The rate of the Ulster Bank Flexible Mortgage Tracks the ECB rate with a margin which is fixed for the life of the home loan term. THE MARGIN OF THIS HOME LOAN IS ECB RATE PLUS O.85%. This margin is dependent on the amount borrowed and the value of the property to be mortgaged.
 
It kind of sounds like that, what does general condition 2 that they refer to say? Is the last bit about ECB + .85 under that condition.
 
yeah the last paragraph is what it states in special conditions to loan along with paying mortgage over 10 months in the year rather than 12 and the option of a 6 month payment break. as it refers back to original condition of offer of advance on fixed rate letter im hoping i will get the tracker back
 
Hi lucybousy. I know this post is a few years old but I have a similar situation with Ulster Bank with the exact same wording on the Fixed Rate option form. Just wondering did you have any luck with getting your tracker back?
 
Yes she got her tracker back. But it's not about what on the fixed rate form. Its about what was in your original terms and conditions.
 
Lucybousy also posted here [broken link removed] about this very recently, have a look at the most recent posts there, probably have a better chance of getting response from her there as not too many posts on here.
 
Thanks peteb & wbbs. My loan offer terms are as per Lucybousy's stated above except, I don't have 1 loan offer, I have 2!

The original which was issued on 18/05/2005 gave me the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate of 2.95%. However, it should have been the Ulster Bank Flexible tracker rate of ECB + 0.95% = 2.95%. The mortgage broker challenged this and a new loan offer was issued dated 27/05/2005 with a special condition confirming the correct rate (ECB + 0.95%) and that this amends the Original Loan Offer dated 18/05/2005.
 
Well then your second one is the correct one, Lucybousy will send you template letter to send off to bank if you ask on the other thread.
 
Thanks so much for that. I have already drafted a letter to UB but have in the meantime sent a PM to Lucybousy via the other thread.

Again thanks and I'll post an update to let all know how I get on with UB.
 
Thecount, I've been through this already myself. I was also in contact with Lucybousy at the time direct. She had got hers back as a goodwill "gesture" from the Bank. I had to follow the thing all the way through with the Ombudsman. So if you have any question feel free to PM me. I had told Brendan I would do a post about it but life has been a bit hectic and I havent had a chance.
 
Thanks peteb. Sorry but only new to Aksaboutmoney so I don't know how to send you a PM. Perhaps someone could tell me how.
 
if you left click on my name, you will get a drop down list and choose send PM.
 
I don't get that option. Anyway, here is a draft of what I am proposing to send them:

Thank you for your letter date 8th April in response to mine dated 29th March (copies enclosed).

However, I dispute your decision and set out clearly my interpretation of the matter.

You are correct in saying that when we signed the fixed rate appendix, it did state that at the end of the fixed rate, the bank would offer alternative products. However, it also states that any selection of one of these alternative products would have to be signed by both parties to the mortgage.

In the absence of any formal selection by the borrower, the “Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate shall apply in accordance with General Condition 2 of the Offer of Advance originally accepted”.

This raises a number of points;

Firstly, there is no definition of the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate or no explanation that this is in fact the Standard Variable Rate, which I must stress, is the term commonly used by all banks including Ulster Bank. Furthermore, I have examined all other correspondence received from Ulster Bank since the expiry of the fixed rate term in November 2009 and at no stage is there any further mention or explanation of the “Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate”. This correspondence includes:

· Rate Change Letter Authority dated 17th November 2009
· Rate Change Letter Authority revision dated 26th November 2009
· Letter dated 21st December 2009
· Rate change notification dated 10th March 2011
· Rate change notification dated 12th July 2011
· Rate change notification dated 16th February 2012
· Rate change notification dated 12th September 2012

In fact, all of the correspondence continuously use the term “Standard Variable Rate”.

I note that General Condition 2 of the Offer of Advance dated 18th May 2005 does make reference to the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate and this is explained in the Special Conditions contained in that Offer of Advance.

However, this Offer of Advance was amended by a subsequent Offer of Advance dated 27th May 2005 which clearly states:

“This Revised Loan Offer is signed in conjunction with your Original Loan Offer dated 18th May 2005 and the conditions of the Original Loan Offer apply to this Revised Loan Offer, except to the extent they are varied by this Revised Loan Offer”.

The special conditions contained in the Revised Loan Offer confirm that the rate applicable is the Ulster Bank Flexible Mortgage which tracks the ECB rate plus a margin of 0.95%.

There were no General Conditions attached to this Revised Loan Offer dated 27th May 2005 but given the format and layout of the Original Loan Offer dated 18th May 2005, it is therefore reasonable to expect that General Condition 2 would be amended to refer to the Ulster Flexible Mortgage rate at ECB + 0.95% rather than the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate.

Secondly, the fixed rate authority which states that the rate “in accordance with General Condition 2 of the Offer of Advance originally accepted” leads me to understand that in default of any formal selection of an alternative rate, the Offer of Advance takes precedence, which in this case is the tracker rate of ECB + 0.95%.

Thirdly, your letter dated 8th April states that General Condition 2 specifically provides for the application of the Standard Variable Rate at the expiry of the fixed rate term. However, upon several readings of General Condition 2 of the Offer of Advance, it clearly makes no reference to what happens at the end of the fixed rate term.

I note also that the special condition of Revised Loan Offer dated 27th May 2005 states that the tracker rate of ECB + 0.95% applies for the life of the loan.

Taking all of this into account, and upon review of all of the documentation that was made available to me, my understanding is that at the end of the fixed rate term in November 2009, this mortgage should have reverted to the tracker rate of ECB +0.95% and the wording of the fixed rate appendix signed in 2006 fails to make it clear that the tracker rate would not be available at the end of the fixed rate term.

I would refer you to correspondence dated 19th August 2010 from the Financial Regulator to all banks on this very issue (copy enclosed).

This correspondence quoted Requirement 12 of Chapter 2 of the Code of Conduct, which obliges the bank to ensure that information provided to the customer is “clear & comprehensible”. The Financial Regulator expressed concern that correspondence from banks to customers lacked that clarity.

I strongly believe that I am entitled to the tracker rate of 0.95% and this should have been offered to me in November 2009. Furthermore, there is a distinct lack of clarity in the correspondence from the bank which makes the situation ever more confusing & complicated. Therefore, in the light of the Financial Regulators comments in August 2010, I must now insist that the tracker rate of ECB + 0.95% be restored and a full refund of the overcharged interest be made.

I require confirmation of this no later than Monday 22nd April next and in the absence of confirmation, I will have no option but to refer the matter to the Financial Services Ombudsman.
 
Seems fairly well worded to me. With any further correspondence avoid getting dragged into responding to their points in any way of a personal matter (reflecting the annoyance you probably have). I find this just plays into their hands and drag matters on further.

When they issue a final response letter - assuming they haven't changed their tune in in terms of not giving it back - expect the FSO decision to take a number of months. Judgement will not be swift unfortunately.
 
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