Clare county council & proof of household charge

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thedaras

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Just been listening and reading about Clare county council looking for proof of payment of the household charge.

Apart from those who CANT pay, and along with all those who have exemptions.I think its a wonderful idea.

Something like 50% of students get grants,and some of us who have paid the household charge and pay our students fees are as usual being left to carry the can.
The cost of this is enormous and yet a some of those who wont pay the household charge are the very ones looking to get free fees and anything else they can manage to wriggle out of paying.


For me paying the fees of my student is difficult,and yet he is with others who are on grants,who have no need to work part time,who go on weekends away,who can afford to go on nights out etc.
For a 100 euro investment you get 2500 euro, that's a bargain!
 
im no expert on matters of the law, but if a legal challange is taken against clare co council,and or the government, i think the government would loose this one!
 
blueband said:
im no expert on matters of the law, but if a legal challange is taken against clare co council,and or the government, i think the government would loose this one!
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I agree. Its extortion.

But on a practical note, it makes no sense at all. All they are doing is further proving they havent a clue who paid and who didnt. You could fill out the form (the one Ive seen anyway) with any old rubbish and force it back on them to check if it was paid. Which is what they cannot seem to do.
 
thedaras said:
some of those who wont pay the household charge are the very ones looking to get free fees and anything else they can manage to wriggle out of paying.
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Exactly !

And just wait for the hoo-ha over this...bloody ridiculous !
 
truthseeker said:
I agree. Its extortion.
You could fill out the form (the one Ive seen anyway) with any old rubbish and force it back on them to check if it was paid. Which is what they cannot seem to do.
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What do you mean "fill out the form with any old rubbish "?
As per this article they are looking for "Proof " of payment..

[broken link removed]
South Tipperary County Council has decided to ask applicants to "submit evidence of having paid the charge in advance of payment of the grant", a spokeswoman said.

The council will process grant applications but will not make payments until evidence of the household charge payment is received, she said. The council may review the decision in light of local and national developments, she added.
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Meanwhile, Clare County Council has defended writing to college grant applicants asking for proof of household charge payments.
 
I wonder what other areas they could use this tactic.
Applying for child benefit or claiming back tax on the Med 1 for example.
 
Don't you need a tax clearance cert to qualify for certain things, for example to be a taxi driver?
It's possible the government could could extend this line of thinking and deem anyone that has not paid their household charge to be tax non-compliant. Then to qualify for certain tax reliefs or social welfare payments you must be tax compliant.
 
Shawady said:
Then to qualify for certain tax reliefs or social welfare payments you must be tax compliant.
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This would be an outrageous infringement on individual rights and in practice would mean that children could go hungry if a parent is negligent with their tax obligations or if a Revenue glitch generates a complication on a parent's tax record.
 
Shawady said:
Don't you need a tax clearance cert to qualify for certain things, for example to be a taxi driver?
It's possible the government could could extend this line of thinking and deem anyone that has not paid their household charge to be tax non-compliant. Then to qualify for certain tax reliefs or social welfare payments you must be tax compliant.
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Household charge is not a tax in the context of a tax clearance certificate.
 
So someone can get a tax clearance cert even though they have not paid the household charge?
I wonder if that will be the case when the property tax itself comes in.
 
Shawady said:
So someone can get a tax clearance cert even though they have not paid the household charge?
I wonder if that will be the case when the property tax itself comes in.
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A Tax Clearance Certificate is a written confirmation from Revenue that a person's tax affairs are in order at the date of issue of the Certificate. The property tax will be collected by Revenue, so, I would think than the payment of the property tax must be met before a tax clearance could be issued.
 
T McGibney said:
This would be an outrageous infringement on individual rights and in practice would mean that children could go hungry if a parent is negligent with their tax obligations or if a Revenue glitch generates a complication on a parent's tax record.
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Hysterical arguements like this add nothing to the debate.

It could be deducted from child benefit/dole at the rate of approx €8 per month if the householder is unwilling to pay.
No-one is gona go hungry over the head of €2 per week.

To those claiming it's illegal, please explain your statements.

To those claiming it's a disgrace...what do you propose should be done to those who refuse to pay taxes and continue to claim benefits/grants ?
 
Pique318 said:
Hysterical arguements like this add nothing to the debate.

It could be deducted from child benefit/dole at the rate of approx €8 per month if the householder is unwilling to pay.
No-one is gona go hungry over the head of €2 per week.

To those claiming it's illegal, please explain your statements.

To those claiming it's a disgrace...what do you propose should be done to those who refuse to pay taxes and continue to claim benefits/grants ?
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I think you have missed my point. :( A poster proposed actually disqualifying claimants from benefits unless tax affairs were all in order. In that context, is it that outlandish to speculate on the effects this might have on children? I stand over my contention that withholding benefits to the needy on that basis would be a gross infringement of individual rights.

Your own suggestion of weekly deductions from benefits is a different matter entirely.
 
i doubht very much if clare co council or the government will follow through on this, sounds like just another cheap scare tactic!
 
thedaras said:
What do you mean "fill out the form with any old rubbish "?
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As per the link you posted, it says if you do not have the receipt to hand, fill out the following:

Name
PPSN
Date Paid
Amount Paid

(Ive used shorter versions of whats actually written).

So - fill out any old rubbish.

I also think that

thedaras said:
The cost of this is enormous and yet a some of those who wont pay the household charge are the very ones looking to get free fees and anything else they can manage to wriggle out of paying.
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is a terrible attitude to take towards people who are claiming a grant they are legally entitled to. Are we only to encourage wealthy people to have their children educated now? If a child of a low income family wants to go to university should we tell them to get lost because their parents are going to wriggle out of the fees?
 
How does this work where the students family are renting or living in local authority housing and as such exempt from the charge?

Seems like there is discrimination against the children of homeowners.
 
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