Changing liability for LPT on jointly owned house

[Dr Strangelove]

My Mum sold the family home and gave us the proceeds from that sale to buy a new house that she can live in until she dies.

So you voluntarily bought a house with people who you don’t even speak to? Without any formal arrangement in place for sharing of costs?

I know you want to do right by your mother but this was reckless. Right now you need to make the most of a bad situation.

I think you need to talk to your solicitor about putting a legal agreement in place ASAP. It should cover who is responsible for bills, LPT, maintenance, mother’s care, right of residence, right to sell when your mother no longer needs the house, etc

 

[MisseyB]

So you voluntarily bought a house with people who you don’t even speak to? Without any formal arrangement in place for sharing of costs?

I know you want to do right by your mother but this was reckless. Right now you need to make the most of a bad situation.

I think you need to talk to your solicitor about putting a legal agreement in place ASAP. It should cover who is responsible for bills, LPT, maintenance, mother’s care, right of residence, right to sell when your mother no longer needs the house, etc

Sorry, now that you list those things I do now remember that we signed an ownership agreement. It only happened because I'd asked for one, but when I got it all it included was the type of ownership, i.e. joint tenants, and an agreement that we sell the house when my mother dies. I pushed for a more detailed version but my sisters' solicitor said I'd have to tell her exactly what to include, and to be honest I couldn't afford to get one drafted myself at that stage. Also my Mum was so stressed she threatened to cut me out of the house if I didn't sign the document from my sisters' solicitor.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

pushed for a more detailed version but my sisters' solicitor said I'd have to tell her exactly what to include, and to be honest I couldn't afford to get one drafted myself at that stage.

I don’t think it’s too late to seek a more detailed agreement on sharing of costs.

This will probably go legal at some future point and it’s good to have a written record of your attempts to play fair.

Best of luck!

 

[MisseyB]

I don’t think it’s too late to seek a more detailed agreement on sharing of costs.

This will probably go legal at some future point and it’s good to have a written record of your attempts to play fair.

Best of luck!

Okay, good point. I'll get some quotes to have something written up.

 

[Marsupial]

A solicitor can't represent both parties in a sale, so it doesn't arise. This of course wasn't a sale, it was a transfer where the person conducting the transfer can be the only one with legal representation and can dictate what names go on the order and in what sequence.

Remarkably, you appear to know more about the transaction than the lady who opened the thread does!

She makes it clear in her posts that her mother sold the family home and a new house was then purchased in the names of the three sisters.

Hence my question in post #18 which remains unanswered.

 

[Leo]

She makes it clear in her posts that her mother sold the family home and a new house was then purchased in the names of the three sisters.

In her the initial posts she makes no reference to a purchase, it is exceedingly rare for the family home to be sold and the proceeds used to fund another property purchase, as it's usually such a bad idea.

Hence my question in post #18 which remains unanswered.

Well, your questions were:

Furthermore what right has any vendor got to instruct their solicitor as to which of the purchasers should be nominated to pay the LPT?
And even if it did happen, what right has the solicitor conducting the sale got to take such an action?

When's the last time you sold property? Did your solicitor ever ask you to furnish such details? Of course not, a solicitor handling a sale never nominates the party responsible for LPT.

Given this was a purchase and not a transfer as a number of us had assumed, it was the solicitor handling the purchase who would have done so, and they'll seek authority to do so via the contract of sale.

 

[MisseyB]

In her the initial posts she makes no reference to a purchase, it is exceedingly rare for the family home to be sold and the proceeds used to fund another property purchase, as it's usually such a bad idea.


Well, your questions were:


When's the last time you sold property? Did your solicitor ever ask you to furnish such details? Of course not, a solicitor handling a sale never nominates the party responsible for LPT.

Given this was a purchase and not a transfer as a number of us had assumed, it was the solicitor handling the purchase who would have done so, and they'll seek authority to do so via the contract of sale.

Hi. Can I just check that I understand the following statement 'Given this was a purchase and not a transfer as a number of us had assumed, it was the solicitor handling the purchase who would have done so, and they'll seek authority to do so via the contract of sale.'

Are you saying that the solicitor who handled the purchase of the new house should have sought permission from me to be put down as the person liable for LPT?

I just read through the contract of sale, and all it mentioned was that the vendor has discharged the Local Property Tax in relation to the property.

Thanks

 

[huskerdu]

You ended up as the designated person, no-one knows why it was you and not one of your siblings. Its just the person designated to do the return.
You are all jointly legally liable for the LPT and there is no Revenue guidance on who should be the designated person where there is joint owenrship. It can be any of you as you are all legally liable.

It might have been random, we just dont know, You probably need to ask your solicitor.

 

[Leo]

Are you saying that the solicitor who handled the purchase of the new house should have sought permission from me to be put down as the person liable for LPT?

I just read through the contract of sale, and all it mentioned was that the vendor has discharged the Local Property Tax in relation to the property.

The solicitor charged with the sale completes the required forms, that solicitor requires authorisation to act on behalf of the purchasers in competing the sale. You will likely have signed forms to that effect.

As mentioned earlier, only a single name is assigned for LPT, was yours chosen as it was listed first, the solicitor who completed the sale can advise.

 

[MisseyB]

The solicitor charged with the sale completes the required forms, that solicitor requires authorisation to act on behalf of the purchasers in competing the sale. You will likely have signed forms to that effect.

As mentioned earlier, only a single name is assigned for LPT, was yours chosen as it was listed first, the solicitor who completed the sale can advise.

Thanks Leo. To my knowledge I did not sign anything that confirming my agreement to have my sisters' solicitors act on my behalf. I did fill out a pre-purchase questionnaire, but I don't remember it mentioning their appointment in it. If I did I would have refused to sign it, as I had concerns over this solicitor because of a previous experience with them.

I've just gone through all the documentation I have from my sisters' solicitor and there is no sign of a service agreement or similar. In fact I told my sisters' solicitor that I was getting separate legal advice early on in the purchase of the house.

Appreciate you taking the time to reply to me on this.

 

[MisseyB]

You ended up as the designated person, no-one knows why it was you and not one of your siblings. Its just the person designated to do the return.
You are all jointly legally liable for the LPT and there is no Revenue guidance on who should be the designated person where there is joint owenrship. It can be any of you as you are all legally liable.

It might have been random, we just dont know, You probably need to ask your solicitor.

Thanks. I appreciate this info. I wasn't sure of the process, and it was a shock to find out I had to organise payment of this.

 

[Marsupial]

Given this was a purchase it was the solicitor handling the purchase who would have done so, and they'll seek authority to do so via the contract of sale.

Exactly my point. Well done, you got there in the end!

 

[Dr Strangelove]

@MisseyB

Your sisters’ solicitor may have committed a personal data breach by sharing your PPSN with Revenue if it wasn’t l collected from you for that purpose.

You could perhaps complain about this but I think there are much bigger issues.

Revenue will not release you as the nominated LPT payer even if there has been a data protection breach. Their attitude will be: “You’re one of the owners, you’ve been nominated as main LPT payer, so you have to pay.”

 

[MisseyB]

@MisseyB

Your sisters’ solicitor may have committed a personal data breach by sharing your PPSN with Revenue if it wasn’t l collected from you for that purpose.

You could perhaps complain about this but I think there are much bigger issues.

Revenue will not release you as the nominated LPT payer even if there has been a data protection breach. Their attitude will be: “You’re one of the owners, you’ve been nominated as main LPT payer, so you have to pay.”

Yes, fair point. I'm now just curious as to how the whole process typically gets handled. Does the solicitor submit PPS details for all purchasers and Revenue just pick one, or does the solicitor just provide a PPS number for whomever they decide should be the liable party? If it's the latter then I suspect that my sister's solicitor did this intentionally, as she told my Mum she was annoyed that I got independent legal advice on the contract (even though the contract was fairly boilerplate and she'd nothing to be worried about)

I just wished my Mum had put the house in her own name and left it to us in the will instead of all this malarkey. It would have been far less complicated and a lot less stress on her, but then that's why I'm the black sheep of the family. I think differently to the others.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[Leo]

Exactly my point. Well done, you got there in the end!

Your point? But you were asking about the solicitor who conducted the sale, not the purchase???

 

[Cervelo]

I am estranged from the sisters that I jointly own a house with, and that my mother currently resides in. I've just found out that I was put down as the person liable for the Local Property Tax on the house even though one of my sisters has access to all of my mothers accounts and pays all of the utility bills on her behalf.

The sister who has access to my mum's account is refusing to give her PPS number so that she can become the person responsible for the LPT.

I know unpaid LPT can be taken from the estate when someone passes but I am self-employed non-payment of LPT will affect my ability to get a tax clearance cert.

The LPT is not a huge amount of money and I can pay it, but I suspect that this was done intentionally out of spite, and I'd love to be able to undo it if possible.

Thanks for reading.

Given that a tax clearance cert is important to you, is it not in your best interests that you personally look after paying the LPT
What would/could you do if it was your sisters responsibility and she decided not to pay it??

 

[MisseyB]

Given that a tax clearance cert is important to you, is it not in your best interests that you personally look after paying the LPT
What would/could you do if it was your sisters responsibility and she decided not to pay it??

Gosh, what a good point. I never thought of that. I assumed (silly me) that if I wasn't the person listed as being liable to pay, then it wouldn't affect my tax clearance cert. Thanks for highlighting that.

 

[Cervelo]

Gosh, what a good point. I never thought of that. I assumed (silly me) that if I wasn't the person listed as being liable to pay, then it wouldn't affect my tax clearance cert. Thanks for highlighting that.

Yeah, so where's the problem.
You do realise that your sisters have you exactly where they want you, frustrated, annoyed and feeling like their ganging up on you.
Take my advise as one estranged black sheep to another, accept the responsibility, pay the tax and move on with your life!!