Carer’s leave

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Annieindublin

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Can anyone point me in the direction of law or policies in relation to leave to look after sick elderly people?

Our company has a rather old policy where you might be allowed take time off where you have carer responsibilities. But it’s a minimum of 3 months and you have to be approved as a carer (by hse? Department of social protection? They aren’t clear) and in receipt of the carers allowance.

I’m just looking to see if I can get a couple of weeks off to try to improve their quality of life, a week away, a few day trips. Something of that ilk.

I have already used up a lot of my annual leave on taking them to doctors appointments etc so while I’m happy to burn the rest of it on a few trips I’m nervous about how I’ll manage the rest of the year’s doctors appointments etc if I do,

I have heard about entitlement to leave but I can’t find anything definitive. Lots about childcare leave but it’s harder to mind the oldies sometimes
 
Used to hear some years back about people taking Force Majeure leave but don't hear about it too much these days. Perhaps if it is still operational it would help your situation.

Taking force majeure leave​

By law, you are entitled to take up to 3 days force majeure leave in any 12-month period, or 5 days in a 36-month period. Depending on your employer and your contract of employment, you may be able to take more than this.

You are entitled to be paid while you are on statutory force majeure leave. If your employer allows you to take additional force majeure leave, you should check if it is paid for.

You cannot be unfairly dismissed for taking force majeure leave, or for asking to take it.

Your rights to force majeure leave are set out in the Parental Leave Acts 1998 and 2019.




The rules for Carer's Leave are here and it would appear that you do not need to be in receipt of the Carer's Allowance.

What is carer's leave?​


Carer’s leave allows employees to leave work temporarily to provide full-time care and attention for someone who needs it.
You can take carer’s leave for a minimum of 13 weeks and up to a maximum of 104 weeks. If you ask to take less than 13 weeks’ carer’s leave, your employer can refuse your request. See ‘How long is carer’s leave?’ below.
Carer’s leave from employment is unpaid but your job will be kept open for when you return.
If you have enough PRSI contributions, you may qualify for Carer's Benefit. If you cannot get Carer’s Benefit, you may qualify for Carer's Allowance which is a means-tested payment. You can take carer's leave even if you do not qualify for these payments.
 
Does your employer allow for unpaid leave? That might suit your situation better (as it's generally granted for a week or two rather than long-term).
 
You can take up to 5 days unpaid leave in any 12 month period to provide medical care for certain designated family members or cohabitants. Anything beyond that is entirely at the employer's discretion.
 
It’s very much at the discretion of individual managers. There isn’t any consistency and I suspect I’d be told no. And I’m going to ask but I want to have my ducks in a row first.

In the past where staff were permitted extra leave that was used by senior management to hold that certain teams were over staffed. So individual managers are reluctant to even hint that they might have spare capacity.
It’s a fairly toxic place in many respects. But I am not in a position to quit right now.
I am keeping an eye on the market but I can’t see a new employer being flexible with new staff, which I totally understand.
 
Speak to your manager. They probably have discretion to grant leave in circumstances like this.
 
Leave for medical care sounds like what I need as a backup plan for the rest of the year. Thanks Leo.
I’m ok with using up my AL to mind them just don’t want to be left with emergencies later in the year. And getting refused it.

Last time I asked about a long lunch (2 hours) to visit my dad in hospital I was asked straight out if it was really needed and was he likely to die soon… I had already said I’d make the time up later.

I was asked why I didn’t put them in a home, not my finest hour as I snapped back that maybe small kids should be sent to boarding school too!
 
Annieindublin said:
Leave for medical care sounds like what I need as a backup plan for the rest of the year. Thanks Leo.
I’m ok with using up my AL to mind them just don’t want to be left with emergencies later in the year. And getting refused it.

Last time I asked about a long lunch (2 hours) to visit my dad in hospital I was asked straight out if it was really needed and was he likely to die soon… I had already said I’d make the time up later.

I was asked why I didn’t put them in a home, not my finest hour as I snapped back that maybe small kids should be sent to boarding school too!
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Oh my god are these actually humans that is a sick comment. I have seen horrendous comments like this made by some who are supposed to be supportive of work life balance. Hopefully their children will be picking out their nursing homes and with that lack of empathy you can only imagine the possible progeny.

The Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Act was enacted on 4 April 2023. Part 2 of the Act lays down provisions for the right to request flexible working arrangements for parents and carers

2023​

This new right recognises the dual responsibilities of those juggling child and elder care. It mandates a week’s unpaid leave each year for employees providing or arranging care for a dependant. The leave could be taken flexibly in a block of five days or in individual or half-days to suit the carer’s caring responsibilities.
The leave can be used for caring for a spouse, civil partner, child, parent, someone living in the same household or a person who reasonably relies on the employee for care.
The person being cared for must have a long-term care need. This means they must have a long-term illness or injury (physical or mental) that requires or is likely to require care for three months or more, a disability as defined in the Equality Act 2010, or require care related to old age.
Employees will be required to self-certify their eligibility for carer’s leave. They will not need to provide evidence to their employer of how or for whom the leave is being used.
This Act is expected to come into force after April 2024, and we advise employers to implement clear written policies reflecting this entitlement and to offer training to all staff members.
No matter how long an employee has been in service, they’ll be safeguarded against any negative impact for taking carer’s leave, and any dismissal due to this leave will be seen as automatically unfair.
Employers should think about outlining this right in a written policy to help employees understand the support offered. They should also provide training for all staff to ensure they are aware of this new right and the protection it provides.
While the law grants only unpaid leave, employers have the option to pay employees during carer’s leave or even extend the leave period, given that one week might be a short duration for some.
 
Great thanks.

Looks like it should be available soon then. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

Some of our managers are shall we say untrained… needless to say a complaint went to HR about that comment.

my parents are 90+ and we are trying to keep them in their own home. Nothing acute at the moment but that changes seasonally. We have quite a few carers to manage the day to day stuff but we are trying to improve/maintain their quality of life with outings and short trips.
 
Ah carers leave, one of those nice to have benefits in work..........until you try to actually use it.

Our leave policy states the following:
The policy applies if you provide unpaid support to a relative / partner or friend of any age, who may be disabled, ill or who can't cope without your support.

It allows for a lot of medical situations and also stated 'to help with practical household tasks' and 'financial or legal matters'

I tried to apply for some days last year when my sisters husband, the main breadwinner died suddenly to get her back on her feet and my request was declined. They said later it was due to the way that I applied for it. It looked like I was just applying for extra holidays.

Apparently, I was meant to go to them and say right on this date we have meeting with solicitor, on this day we have meeting with coroner, on this day we are meeting financial advisor etc etc.

Of course - nobody came back to me at the time to tell me to reapply correctly, as in the way they wanted to see it, god no I only got told this feedback after the event when it was questioned during a different conversation. Imagine sitting on that information and not telling somebody and letting them just use up their leave or struggle just making up the time elsewhere.

You are just a number in some places sadly even with service numbers in the double digits.
 
A reminder that HR is about having the resources in place for the company not supporting staff.

Pretty mean not to call you and help correct your application

I shall make sure I ascertain what the procedure is… in advance… as I commented to someone recently when they were moaning about lack of notice from a staff member for force majeur leave. mat leave is usually the only area where you get advance notice. In other instances you are lucky if you get notice.

I’ve not used any FM leave as I generally have notice for appointments etc so it’s not appropriate.

We need to set up EPA for both parents too so that’ll be another day or half day anyway.
 
Annieindublin said:
I shall make sure I ascertain what the procedure is… in advance… as I commented to someone recently when they were moaning about lack of notice from a staff member for force majeur leave. mat leave is usually the only area where you get advance notice. In other instances you are lucky if you get notice.
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I don’t get this. The whole idea of FM is that it provides for leave for certain circumstances that by definition are unforeseeable. If they were, it would be anticipated that other forms of leave would apply.
 
That was my point.
A staff member was moaning about the lack of notice.

She didn’t understand that if notice was possible they wouldn’t be using FM they’d use other leave.
 
Annieindublin said:
That was my point.
A staff member was moaning about the lack of notice.

She didn’t understand that if notice was possible they wouldn’t be using FM they’d use other leave.
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It’s worrying to think that a HR person would have such a lack of understanding of what FM involves
 
HR can have large gaps in their knowledge as leave types are changing all the time. I have several occasions last year where I despaired at our rather large HR staff knowing anything. One did not know that we had an internal form for Force Majure leave that is in our handbook that requires a manager signature. One of her responsibilities is keeping the staff handbook up to date.

Best of luck with your parents, and don’t forget to look after your own health as well.
 
Clamball said:
HR can have large gaps in their knowledge as leave types are changing all the time. I have several occasions last year where I despaired at our rather large HR staff knowing anything. One did not know that we had an internal form for Force Majure leave that is in our handbook that requires a manager signature. One of her responsibilities is keeping the staff handbook up to date.

Best of luck with your parents, and don’t forget to look after your own health as well.
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Perhaps the HR people are working from home so can't simply ask an adjacent colleague, like they could in the good old days.
 
Lol

I do think that if you don’t know the law then you should consult with colleagues or even ask google.

And if in doubt you just say I’ll check and get back to you, but reading the HR manual is surely day 1 for HR staff?
 
Marsupial said:
Perhaps the HR people are working from home so can't simply ask an adjacent colleague, like they could in the good old days.
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It's not pre telegraph era. It's never been easier to talk to colleagues or find out information. They either don't know how, or don't want to.

Unfortunately in order to learn the details of these policies you have to have been caught out by them, or a colleague who has, guides you through it.
 
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AlbacoreA said:
It's not pre telegraph era. It's never been easier to talk to colleagues or find out information. They either don't know how, or don't want to.
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It was a lot easier when people worked in the same office and could have a chat with a better informed colleague at tea break or even - perish the thought - by dropping into a colleague's office and having what used to be called a "face to face chat".
(Of course that was decades ago, before the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic!)
 
Marsupial said:
It was a lot easier when people worked in the same office and could have a chat with a better informed colleague at tea break or even - perish the thought - by dropping into a colleague's office and having what used to be called a "face to face chat".
(Of course that was decades ago, before the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic!)
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Having to find out things through tea breaks or having to walk and stand in front in someone before they will communicate (apart from being ridiculous in large organisations) implies that communication is dysfunctional in that organisation and with that dept or person.

What you're saying is it's broken even within the office. Never mind remotely.
 
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