Cannot sell my house due to lack of maps and land registry title

[hennypenny]

We bought our house in 2008 at an inflated price, then struggled to pay the mortgage. With the new increases of the past year, we are planning to downsize. Our house went sale agreed last April (23) at less than we paid, but we would be delighted to pay off the remaining mortgage and save the 1700e a month.

However, although its a bog-standard detached house in a housing estate, we have met nothing but obstacles about lack of a land map and/or land registry title. The prospective buyers are telling our solicitor that the bank wont sign off on their mortgage until the neighbours on either side had written statements saying that the boundaries are unchanged (they are, not a stick nor stone has been moved).

We had an engineer in to state the same, but now the neighbours on one side are away for a month. They are elderly and 'don't want to get involved without talking to a solicitor'. There actually isn't a physical problem, the boundaries are completely the same since 2008 (fences, hedges, no 'common or shared area' etc.). My husband is thinking of pulling the sale at this late stage and renting the house, as we're pensioners ourselves and live with family, but if two solicitors cant agree around the lack of a map (one set of neighbours found their map, our house was also visible), we would just be kicking the problem down the road.

Would be grateful for any advice re how to resolve this.

 

[odyssey06]

Were any of the bidders cash bidders? Maybe there is a lower bid you could accept which would remove need for bank checks if the buyer themselves is satisfied all is ok.

 

[hennypenny]

Were any of the bidders cash bidders? Maybe there is a lower bid you could accept which would remove need for bank checks if the buyer themselves is satisfied all is ok.

No, it was snapped up quickly by the current would-be buyers (the only offer), but I gather their own frustration is growing too...it went 'sale agreed' within a week after listing

 

[cremeegg]

These boundary issues are not uncommon. The Land registry maps were digitised over recent years and that effected many sales, this may be that kind of problem. It takes patience but they usually get resolved.

Your neighbours who don't want to get involved may think differently if you point out that your boundary is also their boundary, whatever issue you are having now, they would also have if they went to sell.

 

[thedaddyman]

There is a process for registering land, see below

Home

Welcome to Tailte Éireann, the new state agency from the merger of the Property Registration Authority, the Valuation Office and Ordnance Survey Ireland.

www.prai.ie

I'm not sure how you were able to buy the house in the first place without this being in place

Your neighbours are doing the right thing in taking legal advice

Pulling the sale is just kicking the can down the road, at some stage, someone will need to sell this house, whether it is you, your husband or whoever inherits the house so for now, I'd focus on getting the paperwork right.

 

[hennypenny]

I apologise if I wasn't clear. We're trying to sell the house, and the lack of map/ land registry and/or boundary is holding up everything and delaying and possibly losing the sale. Neither our solicitor nor the buyers solicitor can figure it out (if THEY can't, I not sure how we can). They only 'think' that to have the neighbours sing a boundary declaration might be acceptable, but one (reluctant) neighbour has now gone on hols and is reluctant to sign anything, hence the title 'cannot sell the house' Hope this helps?

 

[KOW]

I apologise if I wasn't clear. We're trying to sell the house, and the lack of map/ land registry and/or boundary is holding up everything and delaying and possibly losing the sale. Neither our solicitor nor the buyers solicitor can figure it out (if THEY can't, I not sure how we can). They only 'think' that to have the neighbours sing a boundary declaration might be acceptable, but one (reluctant) neighbour has now gone on hols and is reluctant to sign anything, hence the title 'cannot sell the house' Hope this helps?

Your buyers might very well pull out. Unfortunately that is out of your control. Issues around boundaries can and will be sorted out. That there is for the solicitor to sort out. If I was your neighbor I have to say I would not be signing anything until definitive legal boundaries were established.
They will not want issues down the road either if selling. You might have to pay your neighbors soliictor but either way you need to sort out and kicking the can down the road is of no use to you. Good luck.

 

[hennypenny]

The problem is that neither solicitor can guide us as to how to get a boundary map/ register the property. Renting it is buying time to get the papers in order, but where to get this done? I know some people have said the solicitors can guide us, but they clearly cannot.

 

[RichInSpirit]

My husband is thinking of pulling the sale at this late stage.

I would be thinking the same. There are other buyers out there

But are you Sale Agreed, contracts signed, or just Sale Agreed as in a bid accepted, but contracts not signed.

 

[dubdub123]

I encountered a boundary issue when selling my house last year and I employed a surveyor and solicitor to resolve the issue. Rectification of boundary was required which required a new map being drawn up and paperwork signed to assign part of another folio to my folio. Thankfully, I had contact details for previous owner, whose family owned the land in the next folio, and he appreciated that it was a mapping error (as the physical boundary was clear and the mapping was not accurate), so there was no issue having that signed etc . As seller, I had to cover all costs in relation to this. Once the paperwork was lodged that was sufficient in order to sell the property. the update itself could take months but once the paperwork is submitted that should be fine.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

We bought our house in 2008

Is the solicitor you used back then still in business?

You could ask them their opinion.

Although it's possible that back in 2008, solicitors were so busy that they took shortcuts.

Or that they told you about the problems but you forged ahead anyway.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Neither our solicitor nor the buyers solicitor can figure it out (if THEY can't, I not sure how we can).

I wonder should you be changing solicitor if your solicitor can't chart a way to resolve this?

 

[Dr Strangelove]

Although it's possible that back in 2008, solicitors were so busy that they took shortcuts.

I think banks are a lot tighter on this than in the past.

OP has stated that the bank is the one with the concerns, not the buyer per se.

I have a family member who had a very similar issue with boundaries and took the best part of a year to close a sale recently due to the lender having an issue with boundaries. There had been no such issues when they bought (with mortgage) 20 years ago.

In that case it involved an engineer’s report and a lot of cooperation by the neighbour.

 

[hennypenny]

I encountered a boundary issue when selling my house last year and I employed a surveyor and solicitor to resolve the issue. Rectification of boundary was required which required a new map being drawn up and paperwork signed to assign part of another folio to my folio. Thankfully, I had contact details for previous owner, whose family owned the land in the next folio, and he appreciated that it was a mapping error (as the physical boundary was clear and the mapping was not accurate), so there was no issue having that signed etc . As seller, I had to cover all costs in relation to this. Once the paperwork was lodged that was sufficient in order to sell the property. the update itself could take months but once the paperwork is submitted that should be fine.

Many thanks, are you allowed give us the name of the solicitor and surveyor? No worries if not, but am truly frustrated at the lack of knowledge on behalf of the surveyor and solicitor(s) here.

 

[hennypenny]

Is the solicitor you used back then still in business?

You could ask them their opinion.

Although it's possible that back in 2008, solicitors were so busy that they took shortcuts.

Or that they told you about the problems but you forged ahead anyway.

Brendan

Hi Brendan, no, the original solicitor has long retired. I now see that many shortcuts were taken.

I would be thinking the same. There are other buyers out there

But are you Sale Agreed, contracts signed, or just Sale Agreed as in a bid accepted, but contracts not signed.

We're sale agreed, with the initial smaller, refundable deposit

 

[dubdub123]

Many thanks, are you allowed give us the name of the solicitor and surveyor? No worries if not, but am truly frustrated at the lack of knowledge on behalf of the surveyor and solicitor(s) here.

They are both based in the west of Ireland. If you are already engaging a solicitor though follow up with them first to see if they can outline the issue.

 

[Silversurfer]

Many thanks, are you allowed give us the name of the solicitor and surveyor? No worries if not, but am truly frustrated at the lack of knowledge on behalf of the surveyor and solicitor(s) here.

Hi, We used a copy called APEX for a similar issue. It cost €1500 about 6 years ago.

 

[hennypenny]

Hi, We used a copy called APEX for a similar issue. It cost €1500 about 6 years ago.

Many thanks Silversurfer, we're giving it to the end of the month, thanks!

 

[Bronte]

The problem is that neither solicitor can guide us as to how to get a boundary map/ register the property. Renting it is buying time to get the papers in order, but where to get this done? I know some people have said the solicitors can guide us, but they clearly cannot.

We were selling a property recently and I had to get an engineer out to do maps. It had zero to do with neighbours. If the professional map shows the property why do neighbours have to state anything? It cost about €350 plus €30 for an 'Land Registry Compliant Map' based on OSI (ordnance Survey Ireland. It was on my solicitors instructions as they needed a 'land registry mapping for first registration of properties'.

 

[Bronte]

However, although its a bog-standard detached house in a housing estate, we have met nothing but obstacles about lack of a land map and/or land registry title. The prospective buyers are telling our solicitor that the bank wont sign off on their mortgage until the neighbours on either side had written statements saying that the boundaries are unchanged (they are, not a stick nor stone has been moved).

When you purchased:

- where was title of the property registered
- did you get a mortgage