Can a bank assign it's mortgage charges, by way of deed, to a yet to be incorporated company

[Toledo]

Moderator note: Toledo appears from time to time on Askaboutmoney under different names posting quasi-legal stuff. He is often very offensive to other posters who challenge him. I have banned him again for offensive posts and time wasting. I have no idea whether there is any basis for his claims in this post, but just in case there is, I will leave it up.

Brendan


I have heard of pre incorporation obligations in respect of contracts, where the same can be remedied by ratification by the company on incorporation, but I was wondering if the same applied when the assignment is by way of " deed " ?

 

[Toledo]

With regard to the application of this question in the real world, I was wondering does this problem apply to Promontoria Aran LTD ( a section 110 shell company of Cerberus ) when they entered an agreement by deed of mortgage sale with Ulster Bank on the 16th December 2014. However, Promontoria Aran LTD were only incorporated by the C.R.O. ( company registrations office ) on the 19th December 2014. Are all these mortgage charge transfers potential void ? Did the P.R.A. ( Property Registration Office ) not spot this flaw when completing the transfer ? Did the solicitors, for both parties, purposefully, not supply this detail, but only supply the later novated agreement of February 2015 so as to get the transfer successfully registered ? These questions need to be answered.

 

[Toledo]

Look at the following case,English v Promontoria Aran LTD, all Mr English has to do is scratch a bit deeper ! See link

High Court 28/11/2016
[broken link removed]16/11/2016 English -v- Promontoria (Aran) Ltd

 

[Jim Stafford]

Having looked at the case mentioned, a key paragraph appears to be:

According to the evidence on 16th December, 2014 UBIL sold to Promontoria Holding 128 B.V. all its rights, title, interest and benefit in its mortgage over the plaintiff’s lands. The sale was effected by way of a mortgage sale deed. On 12th February, 2015, UBIL together with the other named Ulster Bank entities purported to sell to Promontoria (Aran) Limited the same mortgage which UBIL had already sold to Promontoria Holding 128 B.V. two months earlier

As Promontoria Aran Limited ("PAL") was incorporated before 12th February 2015, it appears that the earlier date of 16th December is not relevant. However, it does remain to be seen if the transfer to PAL was properly done.

Jim Stafford

 

[Toledo]

Having looked at the case mentioned, a key paragraph appears to be:

According to the evidence on 16th December, 2014 UBIL sold to Promontoria Holding 128 B.V. all its rights, title, interest and benefit in its mortgage over the plaintiff’s lands. The sale was effected by way of a mortgage sale deed. On 12th February, 2015, UBIL together with the other named Ulster Bank entities purported to sell to Promontoria (Aran) Limited the same mortgage which UBIL had already sold to Promontoria Holding 128 B.V. two months earlier

As Promontoria Aran Limited ("PAL") was incorporated before 12th February 2015, it appears that the earlier date of 16th December is not relevant. However, it does remain to be seen if the transfer to PAL was properly done.

Jim Stafford

Jim, I hope Mr English does a little bit of research in relation to the shenanigans of the various promontoria entities, ( who pays for, who owns, and who enforces their mortgage charges ). The form 56 ( P.R.A. ) is key and also the original mortgage sale deed dated 16/12/2014 coupled with the novation dated 12/02/2015. Below is a list of charges received by the C.R.O. in two tranches ( Slavenberg register ) from Holland. If Mr English charge is included in either tranche ( quite likely ), then Promontoria Aran L.T.D. is not the registered owner of the charge ! Oh Dear !

Slavenburg File
List of submissions received on the Slavenburg file - Year 2015
These submissions are Mortgage/Charge documents received against companies which are not on the Irish or external company register Copies of the submissions can be purchased through the website - www.cro.ie using the Submission Search facility


9678065
9678067


PROMONTORIA HOLDING 128 B.V
PROMONTORIA HOLDING 128 B.V


F8SLAV CHG. F8SLAV CHG.

Sub Received Date

ON CO(S) 2/26/2015 12:00AM ON CO(S) 2/26/2015 12:00AM ON CO(S) 2/26/2015 12:00AM ON CO(S)


I was always led to believe you can only have a charge registered to one entity at a time.

 

[Sarenco]

I was always led to believe you can only have a charge registered to one entity at a time.

I've no idea what gave you that idea - it's not correct.

I know absolutely nothing about this particular case but I hope that any litigant has engaged competent counsel and is not relying on amateur, unqualified "help".

 

[Sarenco]

Again, I know absolutely nothing about this particular case but it is certainly the case that different entities can have a charge over the same property at the same time. The first in time takes priority. Pretty basic stuff.

I really do hope that nobody reading this forum takes your "advice" seriously.

 

[Toledo]

Again, I know absolutely nothing about this particular case but it is certainly the case that different entities can have a charge over the same property at the same time. The first in time takes priority. Pretty basic stuff.

I really do hope that nobody reading this forum takes your "advice" seriously.

Sarenco, read the question again, I am talking about the SAME ONE charge being held by two separate entities at the one time, NOT, two separate charges, hope I never need your counsel down the courts.

 

[Sarenco]

Sarenco, read the question again, I am talking about the SAME ONE charge being held by two separate entities at the one time, NOT, two separate charges...

Once again, I know absolutely nothing about the facts of this case but you said that you believed that "you can only have a charge registered to one entity at a time". That is simply incorrect.

Incidentally, why do you feel the need to post under two different usernames? It's very childish.