Burst pipe who's responsible - Landlord / Tenant?

chrisboy said:
Landlord is responsible for burst pipes but you can deduct excess from deposit??

Surely not if its landlords responsibility? Sounds a bit contradictory to me..
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It sounds like the solicitor was addressing two different scenarios - that having been said I didn't ask the question or receive the reply.

If the tenant informs the landlord then he can take steps to heat the place.

If not and the place suffers a burst pipe, the landlord's cover will sort it and he is entitled to recover the additional premium from the tenant.

I inferred from this that if the landlord knew and did nothing, he might be in a bit of a cleft stick, but perhaps that wasn't the solicitor's intent.

ONQ.
 
For how many hours exactly will the tenant have to have the heat on? And, at what temperature exactly to cope with with the specific conditions?

I think it is unrealistic to expect the tenant to be responsible.


Marion
 
I would not agree with a landlord getting the excess on the landlord's insurance policy. This can't be right.

If a tenant was liable for freezing pipes in any way then there would be insurance policies for this but there aren't as far as I know. There is tenant's content insurance but not tenant's house policies for fire/water/freezing etc because those are the landlord's responsibility.

This has been an extraordinary winter, an extreme event so there is no way any tenant could be liable for it. Any landlord who would do so, well shame on them.
 
I most definitely will be deducting the excess from them if it bursts after what i saw yesterday! By law I can do this...

Im the most quiet, reserved person - anyone who is my friend would tell ye this. I hate confrontation... honest! My opinion of this whole thread is ill go with what my solicitor tells me to do & will follow his advise very carefully if something happens in the house whether its immoral or not! My reason
being....http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=66919 - this is a thread I posted before....

I called to check the piping system yesterday WHAT A SIGHT!!! (im changing the topic a little bit here so bare with me)

1. - The house is stinking, I MEAN STINKING!

2. - There is a car port after being errected out the back which is in full view to the front of the house, this guy is no builder let me tell you - its horrendous & they did not seek permissing to errect such a structure.

3. - There are 2 dogs & kennels out the back. First I knew of it

4. - Rent has been late EVERYTIME to the point my solicitor has written to her. i stopped chasing her. Even though she gets RA

5. - The garden has not been maintained at all, its completely full of dog poop

6. - The gravel has weeds growing up through it. I clearly stated in the contract I would maintain this but it was the tenants duty to inform me of same.

7. - The rubbish in the kitchen is right up beyond the counter top!!! :mad: I checked to see if she had dustbins outside, nothing! There is black bags of rubbish torm open outside! IMHO this will draw rats

8. - There was 5 children in the house... wait for it.... she told me they were all hers. My understanding was she had 3 kids. all of whom I wrote on the PRTB forms. She forgot 1 and she has a brand new baby there now too

9. - There is a car abandoned at the side of the house on top of the sleepers (curbing) this has actually caused the sleeper to move, which I might add are bloody heavy to do... anyway.... not really a big issue, just unsightly :(

10. - My timber decking out the back is partially burnt, as in bits broken off a burnt

11. - I bought a beautiful antique cast iron stand alone letter box which I can honestly say im so proud of and people have often commented on it. It requires a key to open which she has. There a note on it stating "postman, box bust please leave post in tin on ground"... devastated

I did not discuss anything with tenant as I was teary eyed & had a lump in my throat.

So for those of you who called me greedy / bad attitude / shame on me & such... I will most likely be serving that tenant notice along with her 5 children to find alternative accommodation. And whatever it costs me to get the house back to "renting standards" I will be deducting from her deposit. Ill give her notice tomorrow for the 25th feb. That should give her enough time to get out. Thats when her lease is up.

I bought that house on my own as a single parent. I worked 3 jobs (honestly) and the day i moved in I had 32p in my bank. My mum gave me a loan of 5k to furnish it. It was one of the happiest but toughest times of my life. To see my beautiful house destroyed in such a short period of time was so upsetting yesterday....
 
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MANTO said:
Excellent,

So just to clarify, If say, I am your tenant and i advise you i will not be in the property for the first two weeks in January as i am going on holidays, am I still Liable for excess even though i have formally (in writing) advised you the property will be vacant?
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Yes. You going on holidays is irrelevant. The building is still leased to you. You are not suspending the lease whilst you're away. If you're logic was true, and factoring in risk to the building, then people who take longer holidays rather than shorter ones would end up paying higher rent. Or people who take skiing holidays over summer holidays would have to pay higher rent. Or, people who work nights (building unattended), would have to pay higher rents. Which, of course, is nonsense.

MANTO said:
Thats exactly what i was thinking, now i could accept if you DID NOT notify your LLord the premises would be vacant during a cold snap like the one we just had, then the LLord could take the excess as they had no knowledge of the premises being vacant and therefore could do anything to prevent freezing..

But being THEIR property and THEY are legally required to insure the property - how can this be liability if the tenant????
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You're confusing the issue: Insurance is not a 'catch-all' for all eventualities. It is also encumbered with responsibilities, negligence being one of them. If you go away, don't tell anyone, turn off the heat, and we get the weather we just have, there's only party negligent: the tenant. And for that, you're liable.

ShootingStar - sounds like plumbing is just 1 of your issues! Looks like when that lease goes up (next month), that you won't be renewing. Don't forget the tenant is also legally liable to hand back the property in the condition you gave it to him, in. If it costs €€ to fix, the tenant is fully liable for all costs - that's what your security deposit is for.
 
I am not confusing any issue - the issue raised was - who is responsible for freezing pipes - as Bronte pointed out (as a Landlady) - there is no policies available for tenants to take out insurance againt another persons property - that alone should answer the question,

Shootingstar - you obviously have a lot more issues than the orignal thread suggested - my heart honestly goes out to you and i hope your solicitor can do everything in their power to help you.
 
Shooting star your issue is not what this thread was about.

You are in serious trouble, this is going to cost a lot more than the deposit so you need to think about that now.

Your tenant, from your description, is what we all dread, the tenant from hell. Therefore you need to thread very carefully. If you give notice do you think she will leave, probably not. You should look up other threads on this very topic on here. I also recommend you to contact the Irish property owners body for advice, and make sure that you comply with all the PRTB rules on the tenant. Start with taking pictures etc. I've had a similar tenant and I got rid of them by giving them back the deposit ! You should never furnish your house with anything that would upset you should it be damaged. Good solid servicble and unbreakable stuff.

Best of luck as you're going to need it.
 
shootingstar said:
So for those of you who called me greedy / bad attitude / shame on me & such... I will most likely be serving that tenant notice along with her 5 children to find alternative accommodation. And whatever it costs me to get the house back to "renting standards" I will be deducting from her deposit. Ill give her notice tomorrow for the 25th feb. That should give her enough time to get out. Thats when her lease is up.
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SS you probaby drive a big fancy car and live the life of luxury on the backs of your down-trodden tenants who work so hard to bring you their rent with cap in hand. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

***Anyway back to reality***

From having seen the state of my flat after being vacated by tenants I believe the deposit should be at least 3 months rent rather one that would stop people messing about with us
 
S.L.F said:
A landlord doesn't have sex (I'm sure some of the wags here will be getting onto me about that) they can be either male or female.
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I always quote myself as a landlord. To me a landlady is a digs situation, where you live in the house with the person from whom you are renting.

I agree with you about the 3 months deposit, more in keeping with our European neighbours where long term leases are more common.
 
If thats the case if you want 3 months rent then it should be held over by a third party and an independent assessment be taken out (at the landlords expense) of the condition of the property. Maybe then the tenant would also get back any interest that is owing to him from the deposit!!
There are far too many landlords who withhold the deposit or portion of it when the tenant has left the property in the same condition as at start (bar any reasonable wear and tear).
The problem is that good landlords are then tarred with the same brush in the same way that landlords look on tenants with an inherent distrust because of poor tenants
 
webbs said:
If thats the case if you want 3 months rent then it should be held over by a third party and an independent assessment be taken out (at the landlords expense) of the condition of the property. Maybe then the tenant would also get back any interest that is owing to him from the deposit!!
There are far too many landlords who withhold the deposit or portion of it when the tenant has left the property in the same condition as at start (bar any reasonable wear and tear).
The problem is that good landlords are then tarred with the same brush in the same way that landlords look on tenants with an inherent distrust because of poor tenants
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I agree but the property would have to be totally repainted before it is returned and done by a professional not some botch job.
 
webbs Re: Burst pipe who's responsible - Landlord / Tenant?
If thats the case if you want 3 months rent then it should be held over by a third party and an independent assessment be taken out (at the landlords expense) of the condition of the property. Maybe then the tenant would also get back any interest that is owing to him from the deposit!!
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Webbs, you make an excellent point. As far as I know, this happens in many other countries, the money is held independently or in an interest yielding account. I have no problem with this as I always keep the deposit separate as I don't consider it to be mine.

I'd be happy to pay an independent assessor to check over a property if the tenant has the onus to return the property in the condition it was given. My sister rented in Brussels and she scrubbed and painted as if her life depended on it as there were 3 months rent at stake. The LL checked all the paintwork (has to be a specific make and colour so she can match it). There could be nothing hung on the walls. The floor was checked for paint splatter. Oven, fridge, bathrooms, floors, beds etc had to pristine or replaced.

Anyway, Shootingstar, my heart goes out to you, you always feel more emotionally attached to a place you have lived in, but you can't. Make sure your notice follows the letter of the law. Write a list of what needs to be done in order for go get her deposit back (TBH, if everything else gets done, the excess on your insurance will be the least of your problems). Try not to get upset. Be professional and up front with her and see where you stand after.

As per another tread, I'm getting so dismayed with the whole thing. People reckon LL's have loads of money and they are fair play. We've worked very hard to manage to buy another place - I always saw it as a pension, but now I'm not so sure. My yield was only about 1.5% last year (previous tenants trashed the place & cost a small fortune just to get it back in order). I still had to pay tax on that. I have to pay the NPPR again in just 2 months. I'd make well more than that in the bank. In the absence of any capital appriciation it's just not worth it. But, I have managed to re-rent so I'll give it another year and see where I stand.

PS - take you antique letter box out of there, she probably just lost the key.

Good luck
 
S.L.F said:
That is exactly what I said to a woman one day (owns about 10 houses) and she said to me a landlady runs a boarding house or a pub, she lets out property so as far as she's concerned (and me too) she's a landlord.

So's my wife...;)
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oh ok... i didnt realise the Dictionary is wrong!
 
webbs said:
If thats the case if you want 3 months rent then it should be held over by a third party and an independent assessment be taken out (at the landlords expense) of the condition of the property. Maybe then the tenant would also get back any interest that is owing to him from the deposit!!
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I would absolutely love such a system. Where I am is exactly how it operates (not the interest bit !) and basically the tenant is responsible for everything, all apartments etc are pristine on letting and leaving. And I mean pristine. They even measure how high the hedge is when you go in and it has to be the same when you leave. Independant assessment is paid for by the tenant or split 50/50. It's more in the interest of a tenant to have the assessment paid for by his professional rather than the landlord's.

Re the landlady thing, having been a landlady myself in another life I forgot about the pub landlady. I prefer being a landlord, much easier.
 
Bronte said:
I would absolutely love such a system. Where I am is exactly how it operates (not the interest bit !) and basically the tenant is responsible for everything, all apartments etc are pristine on letting and leaving. And I mean pristine. They even measure how high the hedge is when you go in and it has to be the same when you leave. Independant assessment is paid for by the tenant or split 50/50. It's more in the interest of a tenant to have the assessment paid for by his professional rather than the landlord's.

Re the landlady thing, having been a landlady myself in another life I forgot about the pub landlady. I prefer being a landlord, much easier.
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I disagree with your comment about it being in the interest of the tenant to get the tenant to pay for an independent assessor.
I think it should be the other way around - if the money is held by a 3rd party then the assessor should be paid for by the landlord, surely its more in their interest it is that persons business after all. For example if i hire a car I dont pay for someone else to check that it is in the correct condition the hirer does.
The other issue I have and this is a tricky one is the condition of the property on leaving, as having rented plenty of properties usually for a period of upto a maximum of 3years then I believe that if it is normal wear and tear (including decoration) then it is the landlords responsibility to make good every few years or so.
I think that many landlords forget (especially those who just have a single buy to let property) that it is a business they are running and not a service. They are charging someone for a product and its upto them to price it accordingly. You dont pay extra in a hotel room for decoration or because you have used their chairs etc it is included in the price and is an overhead of the hotel as it should be for landlords
 
Bronte said:
I would absolutely love such a system. Where I am is exactly how it operates (not the interest bit !) and basically the tenant is responsible for everything, all apartments etc are pristine on letting and leaving. And I mean pristine. They even measure how high the hedge is when you go in and it has to be the same when you leave. Independant assessment is paid for by the tenant or split 50/50. It's more in the interest of a tenant to have the assessment paid for by his professional rather than the landlord's.
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That's the way it is done in Germany too, I was told by someone that in you don't get a kitchen there you have to provide one yourself and the walls can be whatever colour you want as long as they are white the next people move in and they paint it whatever colour they want and then when they leave they paint them back white again.

Sounds like the way to go.
 
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