Benefits of house versus apartment?

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pingin

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Talked to B of I last week about a mortgage. They're willing to give me the funds but at a high price. I'm 51, with a state job. The longest term they'll consider is 15 years, although they might go to 17 years. For a €200,000 mortgage I would have to pay €1300–€1500 per month (exclusive of insurance and other costs). That's more than half my monthly income. After other living expenses were taken out, I'd have very little to live on.

The other choice is to go for an apartment, something which I vowed I'd never do. While they're a good deal cheaper than some houses, I have this image of them as being small and pokey, badly built and with no sound proofing (but maybe that's just the modern ones!). I play a musical instrument, so not annoying the neighbours would be a big consideration.

My question is this: is it possible to buy an apartment in Dublin that's relatively spacious and comfortable, well built and properly sound-proofed and insulated? Would a duplex be different again? I'd like to stay on the south side of the city, within easy reach of the city centre. Price range €150,000 or less.
 
I live in an apartment in south dublin thats relatively spacious, comfortable, within reasonable reach of the city centre and price would be 150,000 or less.

So in theory - yes, its possible.

We do have some issues with noise. Its mostly a case of being sensible. Two of my neighbours play musical instruments, I never hear them tbh, but neither would continue playing loudly after 10pm because they have sense.
We have had problems with neighbours who have had parties with the noise of music, drunken behaviour, running feet on wooden floors and screaming at the tops of their lungs at 4am - this is not reasonable behaviour, apartment or house.
An neighbour above me used to drive me demented with his techno music pumping through the ceiling - I spoke to him, he put a cushion under his speakers and I never heard him again.

The main issue is vibration through the concrete. You cant hear peoples tvs, unless they are mounted next to vents or on walls, you cant hear musical instruments usually, you cant hear voices, but you can hear speakers mounted on walls or floors, running feet on floorboards and washing machines and dishwashers sometimes.

What is the nature of your musical instrument, if its a set of drums you might have an issue, or an electric guitar and amp etc... if its an acoustic instrument I cant see a problem tbh.

Its all a matter of consideration. You just have to be aware of the fact that other people live in the building. When I lived in a house I had to respect the neighbours too. Its just about having a bit of cop on.
 
Thanks truthseeker. I play an acoustic guitar. I always have an awareness of those around me and would never be noisy. I hate loud parties and drunken behaviour. Wouldn't mind dishwashers and the like but techno at four in the morning or people running up and down the hall would drive me insane. I live in a house at the moment with elderly neighbours on either side and it's so nice and quiet!
 
Id be the same as you pingin, like my peace and quiet.

The apartments Im in now have fully 'settled' if you know what I mean, there is very little movement and people are having families, not parties! But some are rented and there is always the risk that new renters will wreck the peace. The management company are helpful if the situation does arise. Earplugs are a must have for the very odd occasion that someone does have a loud party (I dont begrudge anyone an odd party every few months, its every weekend would do your head in).

For me the biggest disadvantage is the lack of a garden, an outdoor space to call my own. There is a communal garden area but its not private.

Parking can be an issue for guests, its not where I am, but it is something friends who live in other apartments have issues with.

A big advantage is general safety and lack of burglaries. You dont get break ins for car keys because its impossible to tell what car is whose, and because one person making noise in the middle of the night could wake a whole block AND the fact there are always people coming and going you dont tend to get break ins for robberies either. Although the car park does suffer some petty crime occasionally (smashed windows, stolen items from car boots etc..).

My techno music playing upstairs neighbour used to play acoustic guitar, I liked when he opened his window and played, Id open mine and listen, couldnt hear it otherwise.

Management fees are an issue to be aware of, depending on how expensive they are, could be off putting.

Also, there are no common areas where I live, not a block with elevators, corridors etc. All own front door, so I may not be aware of the problems of internal shared spaces.

Hope this helps.
 
That information is a great help.

The prospect of tenancies around you changing is a bit worrying, though, as you say, it's better in a 'settled' block.

Lack of a garden would be a big minus for me (I'm a countryman after all!) but that would be the price I'd have to pay.

Not too worried about parking for guests as long as my own car was safe! Would also need somewhere to put my bicycle.

The security advantages are significant. I'd never thought about that before. As is your own front door.

Years ago, I lived in a shared apartment on Hatch Street for a few months. It was a nice place but a very unfriendly environment. You'd meet your neighbours in the corridor but they'd just walk by without speaking. They didn't want to speak to anyone. It was totally lacking in any sense of community.
 
pingin said:
Not too worried about parking for guests as long as my own car was safe! Would also need somewhere to put my bicycle.
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Inside the apartment is the only place that'll ever be safe. I've never heard of a bike last long in those communal locks in the garage.
 
I have lived in both a house and an apartment.
People all over the world live happily in apartments for their whole lives.
For me, the apartment was fine,until child number one came along,then it was a nightmare( though there are many who bring up kids in apartments and do so without any issues).
Having the kids in a house with a back garden was significantly easier,as they could play in the garden,on the trampoline,swings slides etc.I could put a little blow up pool out during the summer which was great.I dont know if you have children or will have grandchildren but if you do ,it is worth taking that into account.
If you are into gardening,a house with garden would be great,anytime you have off work you can spend in the garden or the green house.Planting trees/flowers and watching them grow ,cutting the lawn,and sitting out on the rare day is a great advantage.
Of course you could stroll to a local park,but there is no comparison to having your own back garden.

I can see the advantage of an apartment in terms of security etc,but would think having a house with a garden would out weigh any advantage .
Another disadvantage of an apartment is that they are mainly young people,and smokers have a tendency to go out to the balcony and flick their fags over.When there are partys and there are a few smokers on the balcony, this can be annoying.
Even things like getting your clothes dry would be a hassle in an apartment.The turnover of tennants is greater too.
You could get just as much heartbreak about playing a guitar,in a house as an apartment,depends on how well insulated against noise they are.
In a semi detached house you have, in the main neighbours either side but in an apartment you may well have neighbours above ,below,across,and either side.



There is no guarantee that life will be without issues in a house,but for me, Id go for a house over an apartment every time.
 
My own first preference would be for a house, but it looks like I can't afford it now, much to my regret.

The question of children doesn't arise as I still haven't met that shapely young Swedish blonde and am unlikely to do so at this age and stage of baldness! Also, much to my regret.

I've always dreamt of having a garden, just to be able to go and potter or work in a shed.

The prospect of tenants changing about regularly would not be attractive either. A whole lot of minuses there, but, as I say, it's all down to a question of affordability for me now...
 
As thedaras has suggested, why dont you rent for a while. You could rent an apartment where you would be interested buying and see what you think of apartment living.

The apartment I am in looks out on the countryside, the cows moo me to sleep some nights (and moo me awake when they having calves!).

There are also allotments right behind my apartment - I can look out my window at the farm they are on.

So - a lot of that makes up for the lack of a garden for me. Plus there is a small local park a ten minute walk down the road and Marlay Park is only a ten minute drive. I can and do sit out the back in the communal area but people are waking by with dogs and kids etc so its not private - I certainly wouldnt sit there in my bikini lol, nor would I leave things out while I went back inside like you can with a garden.

I keep my bike in the my own hallway, my husband keeps his there too.

Some of the neighbours are friendly, some arent. Same as anywhere I suppose. Renters do tend to be less friendly. The big snows a couple of winters ago did a lot for community spirit, as we all had to help each other dig cars out of the carpark and youd find your neighbour had swept away a path outside your door so youd do it for him next time.

Just down the road from where I live there is a development with small houses, I suppose they could be referred to as 'starter homes' that are about the same size and price as an apartment, but are houses. So theres that to think about as well?

I did have an occasion where the person above me thought it was fine to stand at his front window smoking and flicking the butts down, where they made a fine collection outside my front door. I went up and pointed it out to him - it stopped. You have to be prepared to speak up for yourself, and in a constructive manner, usually small hassles like flicked ciggie butts are just a person not thinking, as opposed to someone trying to be a pain.

I do look forward to living in a house again. Main reason, garden and privacy. Noise is not the biggest issue at all. I could do with more space too but there are two of us in the apartment and we're both readers and collectors of books.
 
Hi Pingin,
I was in exactly same situation as you, but i havnt regretted YET buying a duplex. The duplex is over 15 years old, spacious and well built in good maintained small community.I rented it first for a period to see if i liked it and then bought. The management fees are balanced out if you are in good location within walking access to shops, buses etc.You are saving on using car, taxis etc.
 
Apartment/Duplex - Issues = Annual Maintenance, Car Parking, Noise, No Garden for Children, No control over who you meet in corridors +Common areas - maintenance, sharing, littering.

House = Extra expense
 
Angus, I disagree.

My FIL lives in a house in a privately managed estate so he has management/maintenance fees. He also has massive issues with guest parking. He has shared bin sheds and landscaping that require maintenance.

Littering can happen no matter where you live, as can no control over who you meet on the street.
 
Angus, I disagree.

My FIL lives in a house in a privately managed estate so he has management/maintenance fees. He also has massive issues with guest parking. He has shared bin sheds and landscaping that require maintenance.

Littering can happen no matter where you live, as can no control over who you meet on the street.
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Agreed, but
privately managed estate
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has fees & shared sheds and areas so its a factor in making a decision
 
The issue of "tenant churn" isn't confined to apartments either. House next door to me is rented, and in the 7 years I've lived there, the tenancy has changed 4 times (and it's been vacant for a few months betwen tenancies too in latter years). I understand from other neighbours that the tenants changed a couple of months before I moved in, which would make 5 changes in less than 8 years.

Mind you, in the first year after I moved in, 4 other houses in the cul-de-sac (19 houses) changed ownership too, so there was a lot of coming and going (not so much of that nowadays!).
 
All very relevant and pertinent points.

Bronte, you ask an important question: why do I want to buy a property? Having rented for the past fifteen years, I'd just like to own a place that I can shape to my own tastes. There's also so much uncertainty around renting in Ireland. You can be turfed out at a month's notice at the whim of a landlord if he/she takes a dislike to you or you make too many requests (not that that's happened to me).

Also, there isn't any form of rent control or linking rent to the cost of living. I get the impression—and it may be a mistaken one—that the rental sector in mainland Europe is well regulated and controlled. People rent for a long number of years and have a sense of security. We don't have that here.

As for renting now and buying later, I feel that I'm under pressure, since the tax allowance for first-time buyers will be discontinued at the end of this year. That, plus the age factor...
 
I live in a 3 bed 2nd/3rd floor duplex apartment, sharing a common area with one other duplex.
It is more spacious than my parents' small 3 bed terraced house or my MIL's 2 bed house.

Generally I don't have any noise issues, for example, I will hear guys next door in neighbouring sitting room cheering sometimes when a soccer goal is scored like monday's man city vs man utd, but its not terribly loud. I don't hear TV or conversations at all or kitchen noise etc

Have secure parking. Sometimes it is a pain lugging in lots of groceries/shopping.

I would like a garden so perhaps I will move at some stage.

My immediate neighbour has 3 kids under 7 and they are renting for 2 years or so. I don't know why they don't rent/buy a house with a garden, maybe the duplex works for them or perhaps the parents came from apartment living in their country of origin.
 
pingin said:
There's also so much uncertainty around renting in Ireland. You can be turfed out at a month's notice at the whim of a landlord if he/she takes a dislike to you or you make too many requests (not that that's happened to me).

Also, there isn't any form of rent control or linking rent to the cost of living. I get the impression—and it may be a mistaken one—that the rental sector in mainland Europe is well regulated and controlled. People rent for a long number of years and have a sense of security. We don't have that here.
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There is Part 4 Tenancy which gives rights for 4 year cycles. It comes with its own set of downsides too.
As for rent control, rent should go up because of the increased costs to landlords, be that the tax changes or increased mortgage costs, but also down because of the rent relief reduction. It'd be hard to force any kind of longer term (and by that I mean 5+ years) onto anything given the costs are changing so rapidly of late.
 
pingin said:
As for renting now and buying later, I feel that I'm under pressure, since the tax allowance for first-time buyers will be discontinued at the end of this year.
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That's an absolutely mad reason for buying.

You discount renting giving reasons none of which have happened to you in the last 15 years?

People here on AAM are constantly saying there is a fear of eviction and all I can think of is a landlord I'm constantly worried about the fact that tenant's won't stay long term.

How about thinking where you want to retire to, you could buy somewhere reasonable in the countryside, detached with it's own garden, you could go to it at weekends and continue to rent? There's plenty of good property out there now at reasonable prices, or try the outskirts of Dublin and see what's there.

You mention stability on the continent and wanting to shape the place you want to. The way it works here is that you basically can do what you want to the property but at the end of the lease you must return it to the state it was in when you rented. And tenant is basically responsible for everything. Irish tenant's are mollycoddled when you compare the two systems. I've been landlord, owner and tenant in Ireland and tenant and owner on the continent.
 
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