Bailed-out AIB to pay top staff €40m bonus

Given that Foys payment has been the subject of a legal action not defended he is likely to be paid. But Foy is not the only one to get these outrageous bonuses, the very incentives that led to the "selling at any cost" business model that has overinflated our economy and bankrupted the state.

From: [broken link removed]

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Last week, Mr Lenihan announced that 90 per cent of bonuses paid to bankers would be recouped by the exchequer in tax after it emerged AIB staff would share tens of millions in bonuses for 2008.

Mr Hodgkinson had said the payments reflected AIB’s past and was “not the way we intend to conduct ourselves in future”.

Mr Lenihan said in a response to a parliamentary question that some 2,869 AIB employees were paid €58.65 million in deferred bonuses this year and last year.

Some €35.5 million was paid this year following legal action and a further €3.7 million was paid to staff in AIB Capital Markets in respect of deferred bonuses relating to work in 2006 and 2007. Some 62 executives shared €11.11 million, or an average of €179,000 each, for 2009, while 674 managers shared €30 million or an average of €44,000 each.


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Look at the figures - these guys were paid €58.65 million between 2,869 of them or over €20,442 each - in BONUSES!!!
That's more than a man with a small family on the dole will get from the state - that amount is greater than his entire income for a year.

Companies that can afford to pay incompetent people bonuses like this are running a huge profit margin.
Profit margins like that are a tell-tale sign of monopoly and cartel conditions - so none of them are "clean".

As for orka wondering what my problem is - that should be enough for any right thinking person, but there's more.
These people are the very ones whose "incentive-based compensation" has fed into the unscrupulous lending that caused the mess we're in at the moment.

In Foy's case and those like him, not content with the €70-80K BASIC they are on, they get up to €160K in bonus payments.
That's a quarter of a million Euro a year for pursuing lending practices that have helped bankrupt the state - frankly that is outrageous.
No wonder these people can afford to retire at 40 and spend their days playing golf and complaining about the state of the tees and the greens.

This widening gyre of discontent caused by the high levels of remuneration being paid to the top earners in capitalist systems will eventually bring down the whole sorry, corrupt edifice of croney capitalism and government in the service of Big Business.
Then we'll see what's left to pay Lenihan & Cowan's Ministerial pensions.
They all think they're untouchable.
We'll see.

ONQ.
 
these people are the very ones whose "incentive-based compensation" has fed into the unscrupulous lending that caused the mess we're in at the moment.

That is like blaming the farmer that grows barley for underage drinking.

The Capital Markets division would do a lot of fee based services for corporate customers in the areas of trade finance, stockbroking etc. I would be very interested to know how profitable the Capital Markets division is now.
 
Finally Mr Lenihan has found the guts to put a stop to this it seems . Still it shouldnt cloud our vision people as to the diasaster FF have made of our economy.Hope people dont forget when the election time comes
 
Disgraceful decision. I presume Mr Cowan and friends will now explain why Mr Fingleton wasn't made hand over his bonus and pension pot when forced out of irish nationwide.
 
Disgraceful decision. I presume Mr Cowan and friends will now explain why Mr Fingleton wasn't made hand over his bonus and pension pot when forced out of irish nationwide.

Do you mean Mr Lenihan effectively overruling a high court decision is disgraceful?
 
Companies that can afford to pay incompetent people bonuses like this ....
There has been NO suggestion anywhere that the people in the capital markets division (for the avoidance of doubt onq, that would be the investment division, not the lending division) are in any way incompetent. In fact, throughout this whole debacle it has been repeatedly pointed out that the capital markets division (for the avoidance of doubt onq, that would be the investment division, not the lending division) was pretty much the only bright spot in AIB’s performance – without them, AIB would be even further in the manure business.

these guys were paid €58.65 million between 2,869 of them or over €20,442 each - in BONUSES!!!
That's more than a man with a small family on the dole will get from the state - that amount is greater than his entire income for a year.
In Foy's case and those like him, not content with the €70-80K BASIC they are on, they get up to €160K in bonus payments.
That's a quarter of a million Euro a year
Your post shows a huge amount of begrudgery that someone could possibly earn this kind of money. People do earn this kind of money all over the world and as long as they deliver for their employers, they will continue to earn this kind of money. I would prefer to pay a trader 250K and have him make 10M for the company – than a trader at 75K who loses the company 2M. Do you understand that you get what you pay for and you pay for what you get? That’s the whole point of low basic, high bonus structures – reward the people who deliver – do you have an issue with that concept?
These are normal pay rates across Europe and the world and the one sure thing to come out of this is that AIB won’t be able to retain or recruit any decent staff for their capital markets division (for the avoidance of doubt onq, that would be the investment division, not the lending division). Tough choice as a trader eh? Hmm, earn 75K plus 160K+ bonus in a solvent bank/investment company in Ireland, the UK, Europe, the US, anywhere, ... or earn 75K plus no bonus in AIB where I will be pilloried from a distance by people who think a trained monkey could do my job... decisions, decisions...

And finally, + 1 to Sunny’s post – what about Fingleton’s bonus and 27m pension pot? Or at least as a start, the 1m he said he would pay back.
And, again, what about Dermot Ahern’s retirement bonus and pension pot?
 
Do you mean Mr Lenihan effectively overruling a high court decision is disgraceful?

Exactly. I don't like the fact that the bonuses are paid but these were earned before the crisis. I dont see why it is possible to do this but is not possible to go after executive pension pots and bonuses that were earned on the back of reckless incompetence. This is just populist rubbish.
Suppose I should point out that I am probably biased. I work for a financial institution (non Irish!) and benefit from the same type of remuneration. I haven't had a bonus in two years but will be getting one this week. I don't necessarily agree with the bonus culture but that's the way my contract is designed and I am perfectly entitled to defend by contractual rights without government interference. Anyway, Mr lenihan takes most of it anyway!
 
Your post shows a huge amount of begrudgery that someone could possibly earn this kind of money. People do earn this kind of money all over the world and as long as they deliver for their employers, they will continue to earn this kind of money.

Aren't the fantastic traders in the investment division of AIB the same as those traders in the German, French and UK banks who have had to be bailed out by the EU/IMF propping up Ireland in order to transfer money to the Irish banks to save the EU banks whose traders invested in Irish banks?

Traders are just gamblers, they do not do a fantastic job, quite the opposite. They also can never lose as they know no matter how high the gamble the politicians will not let the banks fail. No talent whatsoever is required for that.
 
Aren't the fantastic traders in the investment division of AIB the same as those traders in the German, French and UK banks who have had to be bailed out by the EU/IMF propping up Ireland in order to transfer money to the Irish banks to save the EU banks whose traders invested in Irish banks?

Traders are just gamblers, they do not do a fantastic job, quite the opposite. They also can never lose as they know no matter how high the gamble the politicians will not let the banks fail. No talent whatsoever is required for that.

No they are nothing like that. These guys are not mad exotic traders. Banks had one main weakness. Property. It wasn't capital markets activities.
 
No they are nothing like that. These guys are not mad exotic traders. Banks had one main weakness. Property. It wasn't capital markets activities.

But didn't the capital markets of the foreign banks 'invest' in Irish banks who then invested (loaned) in property? Sorry if my question seems too simple. Banks are very complicated structures.
 
But didn't the capital markets of the foreign banks 'invest' in Irish banks who then invested (loaned) in property? Sorry if my question seems too simple. Banks are very complicated structures.

Oh they did. Not saying people who work in capital markets aren't stupid! But if they did invest, they have more than likely lost money as the price of the assets they bought have fallen. I agree that knowing you will always be bailed out in the long term makes the game very simple.
 
Cannot follow the legal turns in this matter. Perhaps i am totally crazy to suggest that because of their financial position AIB may now be able to plead that they should be allowed to break say their Tracker Mortgage contract which is costing them millions
 
Cannot follow the legal turns in this matter.

Either can I. How about I declare I am not paying my taxes until they bring down the pay bill of the public service? Also A bit annoyed about how much the Financial Regulator walked off with. So I want that reversed.
 
Interesting article by Fintan O'Toole in today's IT which suggests that the whole bonus deal was no more than senior execs 'looting' the bank before it was effectively nationalised.
[broken link removed]
 
It takes us to 8 weeks before an election for them to stand up to the banks.. at last.

My feelings are had we as a nation not stood in the company would without doubt have folded and no one would have got payouts, no jobs and they need to change the law so that if a company takes state aid to keep going, contracts no longer stand and can be changed.

But at last... some one did somthing... even though its very very very small
 
Interesting article by Fintan O'Toole in today's IT which suggests that the whole bonus deal was no more than senior execs 'looting' the bank before it was effectively nationalised.
[broken link removed]

That is unbelievable.
 
Interesting article by Fintan O'Toole in today's IT which suggests that the whole bonus deal was no more than senior execs 'looting' the bank before it was effectively nationalised.
[broken link removed]

That is genuinely shocking. If all stated in that is true, then somebody needs to be held responsible for it and brought to justice.
 
what about all the public servants who earn a bonus, the country is broke, and hence their employers, so what about a 90% tax on bonus payments to NTMA, Central Bank, HSE etc. as whats the difference betweeen the GOVT pumping money into the banks and borrowing to pay the exenses of the state, but will these still getting bonus payments.
 
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