B1 late submission

[mirmick]

My friend didnt file B1 return for his company and the return date was 28/04/08. Can he still file and still avail the audit exemption as its only few days late. I heard that if you file B1 on time without submitting the accounts then still you can submit the accounts within 28 days without losing the audit exemption. Can some one please help on this ASAP?

 

[extopia]

The annual return must be filed within 28 days of its effective date. So if your return date was 28 April, you still have another three and a half weeks to get it in. If April 28th was the last day on which the return could be filed on time, however, you're right, the audit exemption is lost for the accounting year in question AND the following year. Plus you'll have the usual late filing penalties.

The CRO website has plenty of info on this:

[broken link removed]

 

[oopsbuddy]

Also worth noting that if it is the first six-months-post-incorporation B1 that is filed late, this DOES NOT cause the company to lose its entitlement to audit exemption for its first accounts.

 

[pjk]

if the ARD is less than 9 months after your financial year end you can file B1 & for B73 which extends ARD - basically would mean that your friend would have a bit of breathing aspace to file accounts - dday is still 26 May 08 to get B1 in though!

 

[ubiquitous]

If he or his accountant can file a B1 through www.core.ie within 28 days of his annual return date, then the deadline for submission of accounts is extended to 28 days beyond the date of electronic filing.

 

[MandaC]

if the ARD is less than 9 months after your financial year end you can file B1 & for B73 which extends ARD - basically would mean that your friend would have a bit of breathing aspace to file accounts - dday is still 26 May 08 to get B1 in though!

I do not think you can file a B73 once you have passed the actual annual return date (in this case 28th April) even though you have until 28th May to lodge the return. From my experience, the B73 to change the ARD date has to be lodged before the date the return is due.

 

[simplyjoe]

Also worth noting that if it is the first six-months-post-incorporation B1 that is filed late, this DOES NOT cause the company to lose its entitlement to audit exemption for its first accounts.

Have you any reference to back up this assertion? I have looked at the CRO site and I cannot find this anywhere.

 

[ubiquitous]

Have you any reference to back up this assertion? I have looked at the CRO site and I cannot find this anywhere.

Dunno about where you would find a reference at this stage, but this is common knowledge and was confirmed as such by a CRO newsletter some years ago. A phone call to the CRO should verify the basis for same.

 

[pjk]

I do not think you can file a B73 once you have passed the actual annual return date (in this case 28th April) even though you have until 28th May to lodge the return. From my experience, the B73 to change the ARD date has to be lodged before the date the return is due.

extract from B73:

This form must be filed together with an annual return
and shall be delivered to the Registrar not later than 28
days after the company’s existing annual return date. It​

is not necessary to annex accounts to the annual return


[broken link removed]

regarding oopsbuddy reference to 1st B1 to be filed late and not losing exemption I concur - strictly speaking it is not an annual return as its due 6 months after incorporation - think ICAI caught CRO out on this technicality

 

[RedStix]

if the ARD is less than 9 months after your financial year end you can file B1 & for B73 which extends ARD

Be careful with this form and ONLY file it if you are desperate for time, as you can only avail of this ARD extension, once in every five years.

 

[pjk]

Be careful with this form and ONLY file it if you are desperate for time, as you can only avail of this ARD extension, once in every five years.

noted that you can only file once within 5 years but in my opinion you are as well to have the max gap available between financial year end and ARD (i.e. 9 months) if you have a nine month gap this is the max available and thus the need to file a B73 is not available by virtue of company law

 

[MandaC]

extract from B73:

This form must be filed together with an annual return
and shall be delivered to the Registrar not later than 28
days after the company’s existing annual return date. It​

is not necessary to annex accounts to the annual return


[broken link removed]

regarding oopsbuddy reference to 1st B1 to be filed late and not losing exemption I concur - strictly speaking it is not an annual return as its due 6 months after incorporation - think ICAI caught CRO out on this technicality

Very interesting, I wonder why they refused to take the one I had then. Must have been something else wrong with it. Will check it out.

 

[pjk]

cro are a funny bunch - they return forms if they are not competed in black ball point pen if you can beleive that!

 

[simplyjoe]

Dunno about where you would find a reference at this stage, but this is common knowledge and was confirmed as such by a CRO newsletter some years ago. A phone call to the CRO should verify the basis for same.

Good job I did not have a client in this situation as I would have not known this fact. Seems strange that the website does not mention it anywhere. Any idea Ubiq of when the newsletter mentioned it?

 

[oopsbuddy]

I think (without quoting chapter and verse) that the reference to a late filed annual return causing a loss of audit exemption actually refers to a late filed annual return 'with accompanying accounts', which does not apply to the first 6 monthly B1 as no accounts accompany this return. Glad to have brought a little useful information to the fore!

 

[ubiquitous]

cro are a funny bunch - they return forms if they are not competed in black ball point pen if you can beleive that!

They can be pernickety, but in fairness in my experience they are rarely as pernickety as that. I have yet to see them return a document that was completed properly in blue ink, for example.

Good job I did not have a client in this situation as I would have not known this fact. Seems strange that the website does not mention it anywhere. Any idea Ubiq of when the newsletter mentioned it?

About 3-4 years ago. Someone in the ICAI, ACCA or CPA offices may be able to confirm this exactly, if you need this.

I remember being angry at the time as I had attended a CRO presentation a month or two previously and no mention had been made of this point during the presentation, even though the presenter had fielded several questions about the ins & outs of the first annual return, and there had been no changes to the law in the meantime.

 

[oopsbuddy]

I think the 'black ink' issue was abandoned around the time the new regime came in at the CRO (around 2000/2001 if I remember correctly) but they will still return documents if they deem them to be too faint for scanning.

The 6 monthly B1/audit exemption issue was, as far as I know, something they had to back down on and concede, as they did originally consider this to be a "late return", until the wording in the legislation was pointed out to them (perhaps by the ICAI). As they will say themselves, they don't write the law, they just enforce it, so if the wording refers to an "annual return with accompanying accounts", that's now what they apply.

 

[RedStix]

An extract from the CRO Website states that: "Where an annual return is filed late, in the year in which an exemption is claimed or in the preceding year, the company loses its entitlement to claim audit exemption not only for the year in question but the next year also".

But it then goes on to say: "Audit Exemption Cannot Be claimed where: At the time of the first Form B1 is due to be filed with the CRO, (six months from the date of incorporation) as no accounts are required to be filed with that return. Audit exemption may be claimed however at the time of the company's first full annual return or when subsequent annual returns are being filed."

So because you cannot claim an audit exemption on your first (6 month) annual return, you therefore cannot lose your entitlement to claim audit exemption on that return.

 

[oopsbuddy]

Well done RedStix! That nails it! I may be wrong but I think that wording has now clarified the position, since the confusion arose originally.