Avoiding stamp duty on contents

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badabing

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I'm just about to buy a house with a certain amount of contents. The solicitor wants the EA to write out the inventory with a value to submit to the revenue so I won'r have to pay stamp duty on it. The EA says the value is only small, but by my estimation it is sizeable, totalling to circa 15k (below). Does my estimate look reaslitic? (This is all quality stuff, the place is finished to the last word)

Fridge/ freezer; €500
Built in dishwasher; €400
Oven + hob; €900
Table and 6 chairs; €600
Double bed; €400
Bathroom fittings in en suite; €300
Bathroom fittings in main bathroom; €300
Bathroom fittings in downstairs toilet; €200
Garden shed; €1200
Additional partition fencing in back garden (dog's area); €400
Blinds / curtains to fit 8 # windows / patio doors; €2,500
Shelving; €300
External decking; €2,500
Brass finish light switches / dimmers; €600
Flush mounted lights / special light fittings; €800
Wooden flooring / tiling in kitchen + bathrooms / carpets; €4,500
 
Bear in mind that splitting the contents out like this cannot be used to change the SD band which applies to the overall purchase (house plus contents). It can be used in certain situations to change the sum on which SD is calculated (on the house price alone less contents). However the contents valuation would need to be reasonable and acceptable to Revenue. The figures above look inflated to me but maybe the stuff is very high quality or something? Your solicitor should be advising you on this stuff.
 
surely flooring ,tiling and lights,decking and shed are fixtures and do not count as contents.
i would think oven dishwasher,curtains would
 
badabing said:
Does my estimate look reaslitic? (This is all quality stuff, the place is finished to the last word)
Click to expand...

To be frank, no it doesn't look realistic, because many of the items (e.g., lights, plumbing fittings, flooring, garden shed) are permanently installed fixtures and fittings. That is, they are not contents, they are part of the fabric and decor of the property. If the Revenue queried it, could you seriously suggest and would you really expect them to believe that the vendor would have, say, ripped up and removed the flooring and carpet if you didn't pay an extra €4,500?

You could get away with a reasonable amount for removable items like furniture and kitchen applicances.
 
I agree with the above posters, fair enough, for tables & chairs and beds and the like.
But bathroom fittings, decking, flooring are accepted standard part and parcel of the house.
When we moved we left all that and blinds etc, and fully fitted kitchen appliances etc. They were all integrateed anyway.
 
Thanks for the comments folks, however my question is as follows;

All the items I have listed are all wear and tear items, and were installed by the present owners, they were not there when they bought from new. These items as such are not part of the property on which I should pay stamp suty on but additions. It does'nt matter that these items are removeable easily or practically at this point. Any comments? To illustrate, I have ommitted the following which I would consider to be integral to the house;
Fitted kitchen
Standard bathroom items sink shower etc
Fireplace etc
 
Questions: Will Revenue accept that all of these items are contents and not fixtures and fittings?

My view? No.

What is Purchase Price? What is Stamp Duty on (a) House and (b) House and contents? Does attributing 15K value to contents bring you below a Stamp Duty threshold? If yes, this makes Revenue doubly doubtful.

mf
 
This is from the revenus stamp duty guide and it appears I am correct that all the above items are allowable, as they are not included in the legal document and pass by delivery. Back to my original question; does the amount seem reasonable. I will add that everything is first rate and have no objection to taking a set of photos for the revenue should they wish to check.

"House Contents

Generally, stamp duty is not paid on the purchase of house contents e.g.
curtains, carpets, etc., which may pass by delivery i.e. not included in the
legal document. However, where they are part of the transaction they may
have the effect of moving the stamp duty charge into a higher rate.

Example 4

Mary, a First Time Buyer, purchases a house (inclusive of carpets, curtains
etc.) for £196,850. The cost is broken down as follows:
  • House £ 190,000
  • Carpets, curtains, etc. £ 6,850
  • Total £ 196,850
As the total value of the transaction is £196,850 the stamp duty rate
applicable is 3%. However, the duty is calculated on the value of the house
only (i.e. £190,000).

The duty on the deed is:
£190,000 at 3% = £5,700
 
mf1 said:
Questions: Will Revenue accept that all of these items are contents and not fixtures and fittings?

My view? No.

What is Purchase Price? What is Stamp Duty on (a) House and (b) House and contents? Does attributing 15K value to contents bring you below a Stamp Duty threshold? If yes, this makes Revenue doubly doubtful.

mf
Click to expand...

The purchase price is €350k and the stamp duty is 20k, if these items are not allowed I have to pay €21k, so the price is nowwhere close to the tresholds. Furthermore I have no doubt that if I went directly to the vendors and asked them how much they paid for the items I want allowed, they would tell me substantially more than 15k
 
sounds like you are not getting the agreemenet you hoped for.
just ring revenue thats what they are there for and run the list by them.

get a full name of any one who advises you over the phone I have had tom dick and harry all say different things and where, as above, its not black and white, you at least were advised by revenue.
 
Well, it seems to me that if the Revenue's own website states "carpets" as an allowable item on the contents list, then surely hardwood floors, decking, tiles etc would also be allowable, as well as all the 'moveable' objects you list.

Seems reasonable to me.

That's something I wasn't aware of, and if all it takes is a phonecall to the EA to get the list and its' value in order to save yourself a grand then fair play to you for foloowing it up.
 
As far as I know Revenue would not allow you to deduct the value of the wooden flooring and tiling - only contents which the vendors wish to sell to you and which they could take away if you did not want to buy. The vendors are not going to rip out wooden flooring, tiling and bathroom fittings if you decided not to buy them - they come as an integral part of the house and are not contents. But try anyway and negotiate the best amount you can to deduct from the chargeable amount.
 
Some of the other stuff is surely not contents - e.g. shed, decking and fencing out the back and lights switches etc!?
 
I'd imagine Revenue would not accept tiling or flooring as separate items as they're specific to the house?

What I don't understand about this whole scenario is if I'm buying a house can I buy contents (furniture etc) separately provided it's above board and not some scam to manufacture a different transaction?
Surely if it's legitimate where the house is relative to stamp duty bands etc is irrelevant?
 
The value of any related transactions/contracts (e.g. property itself and contents separately) determine the SD band that applies. Then the SD rate is charged on the property purchase price only. Thus, separating contents out can reduce the overall SD bill but probably marginally in most cases. And the contents list and valuations must be realistic/legitimate.
 
Hi
Your solicitor is responsible for collecting stamp duty so it is up to She/He to make this decision, as your paying them, ask.
My own opinion is that if there are 2 contracts to purchase the house and furniture in the "same name" then stamp duty is applied to the combined figure. Could your parents buy the fixtures and fittings although in this market the vendors should be throwing it all in.
 
ClubMan said:
The value of any related transactions/contracts (e.g. property itself and contents separately) determine the SD band that applies. Then the SD rate is charged on the property purchase price only. Thus, separating contents out can reduce the overall SD bill but probably marginally in most cases. And the contents list and valuations must be realistic/legitimate.
Click to expand...

Surely it could make a big difference in some cases if the rate jumps up to 9% because of the purchase of a table?
The rules seem pretty clear but the reality must be people getting around this.
 
True - I was just thinking of how this strategy is normally (?) used to reduce the SD payable and, in the past, incorrectly and illegitimately used to reduce the SD band applied - not the other way around. People were getting around this issue - but only through illegitimate means - i.e. fraud - sometimes facilitated by certain third parties who should have known better (and maybe did but ignored their responsibilities).
 
That's what I suspected...the issue is more with manufactured situations to evade stamp duty rather than transparent situations?

I mean, say I was buying a house from you for €380,000.
I see a really nice table in the house and offer you €2,000 for it which you accept. Surely there's no potential stamp duty issue here?
The OP's query on the other hand looks like a pretty clear case of an attempt to evade stamp duty...am I wrong?
 
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