Are Judgements followed abroad

[horusd]

Agree with you ontour on the way in which to manage this from the OP's perspective.However, the nuances of difference between personal debt and company debt are in the main not seen as relevant by most citizens. There is a poisonous sentiment ( as clearly evidenced here) fuelled by a perception of deep and endemic unfairness in how debt & responsibility affects (and has affected) different groups in society, and also generally how the country is/has been run (arguably for the benefit of particular groups with unwarranted influence on the polictical system). Long-term this bodes ill for everyone. Any social contract between people in a state is based on a perception of equality underpinned by openness. This perception has been damaged (beyond repair? Hopefully not) by how the state and society have been managed. In a sense this is THE most prescient issue facing us all. Their is a deep malaise and wrong at the heart of our country that has resulted in the rejection of responsibility because it's not percieved as being an equal playing field for all. The entire basis of this society and political system needs a fundemental overall to reflect in ACTUALITY a fair, equal and just community.

 

[Pope John 11]

I've never thought that the "well, everyone else is/was doing it" stacks up as an acceptable reason or justification for bad behaviour!
mf

Nothing stacks up at present unfortunately.

All those who took out 100% mortgages share in the blame, as do those who bought houses to get on the ladder living somewhere they didn't want to. No-one forced them to buy, people need to start taking responsibility for their actions.

Banks share the blame here too. 100% mortgages should not have been handed out. Stress testing was definately below par.

I took a 100% mortgage. Why should I take the blame? I'm paying back the debt that I owe, I've never missed a payment, nor do I plan to. So, why exactly should I share the blame when I borrowed well within my means? I'm sure I'm not the only one who took a 100% mortgage, but made sure it was well within their means to do so, even with stress testing to make sure they could afford it with any interest hikes. You can't tar us all with the same brush.

Oh, but you are to blame and you are paying for it through extra taxes etc. Remember "We all partied", Brian Lenihan. What about the brickie who was in a permanent job, on €1,000 plus a week, stress tested to make sure he could afford his mortgage with any interest rate hikes, all well within his means, but is now unemployed?

Personally I don't care anymore what anyone does. Having learnt that Ireland is completely and utterly corrupt I have no faith in honest and fair dealings anymore, until that changes and we have a proper functionning democracy I'll not change my mind. Fool me once and all that....

I feel the same way as you Bronte, well said

Given the impact of the debt crisis on "ordinary" people like the OP as opposed to developers & their wives ( or husbands), not to mention bankers who seem to be living in relative comfort, there does seem to be a lack of parity between wealthy and ordinary citizens. The sheer lack of anyone walking the "perp walk" as we've seen in the states and elsewhere doesn't add to the sense that we have or live in an equal society.

Great post Horusd

Comparing a personal debt from debt accrued through corporate structures confuses people. Much of the debt of developers is through companies and there are structures to liquidate those companies. Developers who made personal guarantees are in many cases using the technical routes to extricate themselves such as declaring bankruptcy in the UK.

Not comparing personal debt to corporate structure debt here. The personal debt of the ordinary citizen has risen to account for the wreckless corporate debt taken on by developers.

Agree with you ontour on the way in which to manage this from the OP's perspective.However, the nuances of difference between personal debt and company debt are in the main not seen as relevant by most citizens. There is a poisonous sentiment ( as clearly evidenced here) fuelled by a perception of deep and endemic unfairness in how debt & responsibility affects (and has affected) different groups in society, and also generally how the country is/has been run (arguably for the benefit of particular groups with unwarranted influence on the polictical system). Long-term this bodes ill for everyone. ………….

Their is a deep malaise and wrong at the heart of our country that has resulted in the rejection of responsibility because it's not percieved as being an equal playing field for all. The entire basis of this society and political system needs a fundemental overall to reflect in ACTUALITY a fair, equal and just community.

Point 1
Unfortunately there is only one poisonous chalice which was in the hands of the developers, government & banks, but its now being passed on to the ordinary citizens of this country, and to all unborn citizens of this country.

Point 2
Agree with your 2nd point.

 

[horusd]

Pope John Paul 11 I had overlooked the impact on the unborn which you pointed out. That for me is perhaps the most sickening aspect of this. It's bad enough for us but what a terrible legacy to leave to our descendants. It makes the whole need to re-invent this society all the more urgent. We surely have left them (and us) in serious hock, the least we can do is try and fix the system. That's why I feel we cannot walk away from this issue, despite being heart-sick at the sight of it. We owe ourselves the job of repairing it. If I hear one more politician/pundit sighing that " we are where we are...." as if there is NOTHING we can do I'll go nuts.

 

[dereko1969]

I took a 100% mortgage. Why should I take the blame? I'm paying back the debt that I owe, I've never missed a payment, nor do I plan to. So, why exactly should I share the blame when I borrowed well within my means? I'm sure I'm not the only one who took a 100% mortgage, but made sure it was well within their means to do so, even with stress testing to make sure they could afford it with any interest hikes. You can't tar us all with the same brush.

Correct and apologies, my ire was directed at those who really stretched themselves with a 100% mortgages and were immediately in trouble with repaying and who are now moaning about it.

 

[PaddyW]

Oh, but you are to blame and you are paying for it through extra taxes etc. Remember "We all partied", Brian Lenihan. What about the brickie who was in a permanent job, on €1,000 plus a week, stress tested to make sure he could afford his mortgage with any interest rate hikes, all well within his means, but is now unemployed?

I took out a mortgage of 96k. It wasn't with an Irish owned bank either, so I'd prefer not to be lumped in with others who over borrowed

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Original question answered.

Discuss the broader issues in a new post if you like.

Brendan