Appropriate approach to someone driving at 90kph in the middle lane of the Naas Rd?

[RonanC]

Are you saying that you've seen cars driving along in a relatively clear inside lane being stopped because they didn't move out to pass a slower moving car in the middle lane?
I'm no talking about a car that undertakes (enters the inside land only to pass a car in the outside lane).

Purple, I think you are missing the point here. Overtaking a car on the left is illegal unless you are driving in slow moving traffic. It doesn't matter if you entered Lane 1 or were already in Lane 1 to overtake on the left.

The law does not state you can pass a slower moving car on the left, it clearly states:

Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are. If you intend to move from a slower lane to a faster lane, adjust your speed first.

 

[Purple]

Purple, I think you are missing the point here. Overtaking a car on the left is illegal unless you are driving in slow moving traffic. It doesn't matter if you entered Lane 1 or were already in Lane 1 to overtake on the left.

No, you are missing the point; if you are in the inside lane and there is a car in the middle lane going more slowly than you then you are not overtaking it, you are simply driving within the speed limit in your lane. In order to overtake you must perform a manoeuvre; you must change lanes.
Therefore if you entered the inside lane from the middle lane in order to pass the slower moving car in that middle lane you are undertaking and therefore breaking the rules of the road. If you were in the inside lane all along then you didn't perform a manoeuvre and so didn't undertake.

 

[RonanC]

No, you are missing the point; if you are in the inside lane and there is a car in the middle lane going more slowly than you then you are not overtaking it, you are simply driving within the speed limit in your lane. In order to overtake you must perform a manoeuvre; you must change lanes.
Therefore if you entered the inside lane from the middle lane in order to pass the slower moving car in that middle lane you are undertaking and therefore breaking the rules of the road. If you were in the inside lane all along then you didn't perform a manoeuvre and so didn't undertake.

Purple, under the rules of the road you are overtaking on the left which is illegal. I would advise you to contact the RSA if you don't believe me

 

[Purple]

Purple, under the rules of the road you are overtaking on the left which is illegal. I would advise you to contact the RSA if you don't believe me

The don't say anything about it.

To repeat; overtaking is passing a car in your lane by moving into a different lane. If you are in the correct lane, on the left, then you should not move to the right, across two lanes, because someone else is in the wrong lane. That's dangerous.

 

[mathepac]

No, you are missing the point; ...

I must respectfully beg to differ; you've missed the point again and again.

... If you were in the inside lane all along then you didn't perform a manoeuvre and so didn't undertake.

Uncle Gaybo's buke (on page 45 no less) states "you must normally overtake on the right" unless

• the guy in front indicates right and moves over and you want to go straight ahead
• you have signalled you want to turn left
• two lanes of traffic are moving slowly and the inside lane is moving faster than the outside lane

I just spoke with Kathleen Watkins on the phone and Gaybo is very upset with you.

Do not pass GO on the left or the right, do not collect 200 squids, you naughty, naughty Purple you.

[EDIT: a present from Gaybo - good-driving-practice/overtaking.html]

 

[ajapale]

But if you are in the left lane all along and travelling at (or just under) the speed limit then what provision of the ROTR are you breaking? as stated by michaelm, purple and others earlier.

If you're in the inside lane and you can pass them without breaking the speed limit then C) relax in the inside land and pass them out.

 

[Purple]

two lanes of traffic are moving slowly and the inside lane is moving faster than the outside lane

There you go.

 

[Leo]

Are you saying that you've seen cars driving along in a relatively clear inside lane being stopped because they didn't move out to pass a slower moving car in the middle lane?

Yes, that exact scenario. Two cars crusing in middle lane, another car remains in lane one and undertakes them. The second of the cars cruising in the middle lane turns out to be an unmarked garda car, as soon as the car in lane 1 is past, they put on the siren/lights and pull them in. The car that was cruising in front in the middle lane continues in that lane! I really don't know why they do nothing about it, even the traffic corps are frequently on that road and do nothing. I saw a similar scenario another time, but wasn't as close, so can't be sure there wasn't something else going on there.

I drive that road every day, undertaking, crusing in the middle and even outside lane is common. But then, almost every time I use a roundabout, someone fails to indicate or use the correct lane, the majority of red lights, someone jumps...

 

[dub_nerd]

The don't say anything about it.

To repeat; overtaking is passing a car in your lane by moving into a different lane. If you are in the correct lane, on the left, then you should not move to the right, across two lanes, because someone else is in the wrong lane. That's dangerous.

Look up "overtaking" in the dictionary, or on Wikipedia. They disagree with you. Even just applying a bit of common sense to the plain meaning of the word, there is no earthly reason why the definition of "overtaking" would entail changing lanes, any more than it would entail looping the loop and overtaking them from above.

 

[rayn]

Am I missing something? Purple said that the rules of the road don't say anything about overtaking and gives a link to the extract from the rules and lo and behold there is a whole section on overtaking.

 

[mathepac]

Am I missing something? ....

Yes. The relevant link is the one I gave. FYI: good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

... what provision of the ROTR are you breaking? as stated by michaelm, purple and others earlier.

The one I listed above, scroll down a little on that page; it's as clear as crystal, no possible ambiguity.

 

[mathepac]

There you go.

Nope. You're just making it up as you go along now.

Two lanes moving slowly was never mentioned in the OP which said very clearly -

What is the appropriate approach to someone [EDIT: a single car, not a lane of them] driving at 90kph in the middle lane of the Naas road.
A) move from the left hand lane, into the middle lane, then the outside lane, overtake and move back into the middle lane and then the inside lane.
B) drive in the middle lane yourself and flash the light and blow the horn like they do in France to get them to move over.
C) relax in the inside land and pass them out...

I know my assumption below has since proven incorrect but nevertheless:-

Assuming we have two adult, law-abiding, responsible and fairly competent drivers, the following is the ideal scenario:

• Driver "B", realising he is gaining on Driver "A", indicates right and moves into Lane 2 when it is safe to do so.
• Driver "A", observing her mirrors, sees a car behind her in Lane 2, indicates left and moves to Lane 1 when it is safe to do so
• Driver "B" passes Driver "A" safely on her right [EDIT: Exactly as detailed on p. 45 ROTR] and when it is safe to do so, indicates left and moves to Lane 1.

Simples. All done calmly in a controlled fashion and all within the speed limit.

Of course if either or both of the drivers is not law-abiding, responsible and competent, anything is possible, including some of the illegal and dangerous manoeuvres described in the thread already. ....

 

[Bronte]

I agree, passing out while driving is to be avoided at all costs.

.

Very good, and I didn't get it the first time I read it . I don't like overtaking, nor indeed driving but then I particularly don't like parking but I can reverse car park which a lot of people in Ireland cannot do.

And it's now clear to me from this thread that a lot of people don't have any idea how to drive on motorways as I'm more confused than when the thread started. It's like the offside rule in football. Everyone has their own interpretation.

 

[Purple]

Yes. The relevant link is the one I gave. FYI: good-driving-practice/overtaking.html


The one I listed above, scroll down a little on that page; it's as clear as crystal, no possible ambiguity.

This is getting really silly now.
This is a copy and paste from the link I gave (which is a page further from the same as the link you gave);

Overtaking
Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are. If you intend to move from a slower lane to a faster lane, adjust your speed first.
Before you start to overtake, remember 'mirror, signal, mirror, manoeuvre', and look in your blind spots. Check that the way is clear (behind and ahead) and signal well in advance.
Remember that traffic will be travelling a lot faster than on ordinary roads. Be particularly careful at dusk, during darkness, and in poor weather conditions when it is more difficult to judge speed, distance and stopping distance. Signal and return to your original lane as soon as possible.


Show me where it says you have to move over two lanes to drive past a car in the middle lane that's travelling slowly. Show me where it says that you must not drive faster than a car in the middle lane.
It’s nonsense, it’s counterintuitive and it would be dangerous.
It would mean that if a driver in the middle lane slows down for some reason every car in the inside lane who continues to drive at the speed they were doing is breaking the law. It would mean that if a driver in the middle land slams on the breaks cars in the inside lane should also slam on.

 

[Purple]

Am I missing something? Purple said that the rules of the road don't say anything about overtaking and gives a link to the extract from the rules and lo and behold there is a whole section on overtaking.

I said that the rules of the road don't say that driving faster than a slow moving car in a lane to your right is undertaking, so yes, you are missing something.

 

[Purple]

Nope. You're just making it up as you go along now.

Two lanes moving slowly was never mentioned in the OP which said very clearly -

We are now talking about a car in the left most lane driving faster than a car in the middle lane. Don't try to change the discussion at this stage.

 

[Purple]

Yes, that exact scenario. Two cars crusing in middle lane, another car remains in lane one and undertakes them. The second of the cars cruising in the middle lane turns out to be an unmarked garda car, as soon as the car in lane 1 is past, they put on the siren/lights and pull them in. The car that was cruising in front in the middle lane continues in that lane! I really don't know why they do nothing about it, even the traffic corps are frequently on that road and do nothing. I saw a similar scenario another time, but wasn't as close, so can't be sure there wasn't something else going on there.

I drive that road every day, undertaking, crusing in the middle and even outside lane is common. But then, almost every time I use a roundabout, someone fails to indicate or use the correct lane, the majority of red lights, someone jumps...

I agree on the second paragraph.
On the first paragraph the gardai were driving in the wrong lane and were wrong to stop the car in the inside lane unless that driver was speeding. Some Gardai are idiots and some of them are brutal drivers. That's hardly news.

 

[michaelm]

I'm kinda surprised I survived to my current age with all the apparent nut-jobs that seem to travel our roads, waiting to pounce on innocent, law-abiding (even if a bit doddery) drivers.

Against all odds it would seem.

I got a few unexpected quid into the kitty lately and I was thinking of buying a motorcycling bicycle of some sort.

Now that would be an accident waiting to happen. Get a budgerigar instead .

 

[AlbacoreA]

Bangs head against wall at serious lack of knowledge of rules of the road

I don't think it lack of knowledge, most are deliberately ignoring them.

 

[mathepac]

...Show me where it says you have to move over two lanes to drive past a car in the middle lane that's travelling slowly. ... .

Right here, in your own typing --->

... Overtake only on the right ... .

simply put and very specific, leaving out, ifs ands or buts, special cases or exceptions, thems the rules. The only confusion that might arise is where someone genuinely doesn't know left from right.

...
Show me where it says you have to move over two lanes to drive past a car in the middle lane that's travelling slowly. .

Right here --->

... Overtake only on the right ...

It follows naturally from the simple rule.

The person in the middle lane may be an eejit who doesn't understand motorway driving but that doesn't give anyone travelling in and around him the right to deliberately flout safety and the ROTR.

The Brits used to have a little mantra for motorway driving that I was forced to learn years ago before I did my first test. It said "Pass right, stay left". I think it still has relevance today with people making up their own rules to suit their poor driving behaviour.

With posters becoming more and more obdurate and obtuse I'm gonna sign off with Purple' words of wisdom --->

... Overtake only on the right ...

and remember your right is the side opposite to which you carry your sword or the arm opposite the one which you offer in support and protection when escorting a lady.