Anti-competitive practices in car sales industry

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Lemurz

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Watch Primetime tonight for more...........

3. Anti-competitive practices in car sales industry
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Oonagh Smyth outlines the problem RTÉ's Prime Time Investigates will tackle tonight
28k - [broken link removed]
 
The biggest anti competitive practice is the impsotion of VRT by the government. They have been told that is is illegal by the EU, but have told them that they cannot do without the revenue. Nice to know that the revenue raised is being spent wisely on things like PPARS and Electronic Voting.
 
good program, eddie hobbs style ( though una was better looking than eddie) the bit about welded cars passing the nct was pretty alarming as was the fact that nct dont have to show it on the nct certificate if a cars mileage has been clocked. was a bit puzzled by the garda claims that it was nearly impossible to trace dealers who clocked cars when it clearly was not that impossible. I also thought that while the old adage buyer beware holds good that if you buy faulty goods you are entitled to redress of the seller, so I dont understand why that girl from Monaghan appears to have no redress because she bought the car privately. I wasn't aware that the sale of goods act distinguished between private sale and commercial sale.
 
cuchulainn said:
the bit about welded cars passing the nct was pretty alarming as was the fact that nct dont have to show it on the nct certificate if a cars mileage has been clocked.
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I imagine that the NCT would be easy enough to get round considering the amount of money involved. Take the number plates off the "cut and shut" ie the car that's welded together, put them on a similar car, the ringer. These guys are in the trade so it should be easy enough to get a loan of a car for a 1/2 day or so. Take the ringer to the NCT, pass the test, put the plates back on the cut and shut and away you go, looking for your unsuspecting victim.

Rodger Cook did an exellent UK TV programme on cut and shuts a few years ago. Talk about death traps. They literally fall apart in a crash

What I find really strange, was that when the NCT was initally brought in for 4 year old cars, we were told at the time that the reason that they wanted to test such new cars was that Reps could put over 100,000 miles on a car in a short space of time. These cars needed to be checked out, as they were high mileage cars and it was necessary to ensure that they were still roadworthy. Now, you are paying the NCT a fee to certify that your car is roadworthy and they won't even tell you that your car has done more mileage that you have been led to believe. I can see no justification as to why this information should not be made available to you.

The law needs to be changed.


Murt
 
Murt10 said:
I imagine that the NCT would be easy enough to get round considering the amount of money involved. Take the number plates off the "cut and shut" ie the car that's welded together, put them on a similar car, the ringer. These guys are in the trade so it should be easy enough to get a loan of a car for a 1/2 day or so. Take the ringer to the NCT, pass the test, put the plates back on the cut and shut and away you go, looking for your unsuspecting victim.
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A simple check on the chassis number would prevent this. According to the [broken link removed] (page 6), this is one of the first things they check.
 
As Shrek31 said the gov are the biggest cheats on anti competitive.

Seeemed the head of SIMI was a bit non commital on some of his answers.

L Lawlor would been proud of some of the dealers, Either no comment or I have no recollection of that
 
Personally I wasn't impressed with the "independent consulatant" person that they had on. He was rigidly in defence of the car industry, which, with a little checking up, isn't surprising since [broken link removed], and whom [broken link removed]. Pity RTE researchers can't dig up better people than that.

Just read with interest, Eddie Hobbs' comments on this, and a possible reason for the government not really caring too much about this.

"He went on to ask if the Government could have been collecting tax on artificially high figures.

“If you take benefit in kind, where the open-market value of the car is used as the pricing standard for your tax, this data is being supplied by an industry which now has a very substantial question mark over the value of the prices which it is displaying,” he said."
 
I thought the programme was sensationalist and badly put together. I have no links with the motor trade what so ever but some of the arguments that were being put forward just didn’t stand up to logic. They said that some dealers made the decision to increase margin at the expense of volume in order to make more profit. The fact is that the motor trade is a volume business. The margin on the sale of a new car is only one of the revenue streams that a dealer has. They also have the margin on the sale of the trade in (I don’t accept that there is any price fixing in this area), they have the revenue from the sale of finance (they can use any finance company they want), they have volume bonuses from their manufacturer (Nissan, Toyota, Ford etc) and they have a revenue stream from servicing etc. Price fixing that limits volume sales will impact on all of these other income streams.
There is also the question of whether any of these agreements were in place/ in use since the competition laws that we now have were brought in. From what I saw most of the meetings took place four or five years ago.
I also have issues with some of the figures that were given, the notion that a garage makes 2-3 thousand on the sale of a small car is rubbish. A quick search on the companies office web site would have shown RTE what the margins are in the motor trade.
 
I think they should do this programme again but base it on car repairs and the false quotes they give people out, especially when some insurance companies will refuse to insure you if a payment is over a certain amount. And the unrealistic days they say car hire was for and hours of labour. I normal example for fixing the doors and side of my brother new focus that someone reversed into it ( for the second time and he only has it 6mths) was 2days. So where do these garages be going with 7 and 9 days and 70 hours labour etc for something small only when they know an insurance company are paying out. No wonder are insurances are going through the roof and do they not realise they it is effecting the other party aswell.
 
LIVERLIPS said:
I think they should do this programme again but base it on car repairs and the false quotes they give people out, especially when some insurance companies will refuse to insure you if a payment is over a certain amount. And the unrealistic days they say car hire was for and hours of labour. I normal example for fixing the doors and side of my brother new focus that someone reversed into it ( for the second time and he only has it 6mths) was 2days. So where do these garages be going with 7 and 9 days and 70 hours labour etc for something small only when they know an insurance company are paying out. No wonder are insurances are going through the roof and do they not realise they it is effecting the other party aswell.
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Don't the insurance companies monitor this fairly closely and send out assessors to review each claim?
 
For anybody who missed Primetime, check out the following links......

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]


Also, listen to Rip-Off Eddie's comments on Morning Ireland......

28k - [broken link removed]
 
Maybe but the Quinn Direct do not actually tell you if somebody has put a claim in against you. As in my case her tow-bar damaged my car so the accessor said it needed a new one. That was it all so how come the quote from the garage said 2,200 euro including a stupid amount of days for car hire and hours of labour. As i stated the genuine garages like the ford one where my brothers car got repaired it only took two days. As i have informed people before keep away from Quinn Direct as they do not car about their customers. Thank god i got away from them.
 
RainyDay said:
Don't the insurance companies monitor this fairly closely and send out assessors to review each claim?
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certain insurance companies approve some body shops. For example Denning’s off the Tallaght bypass is approved by Hibernian so they deal direct with them and are not assessed for most claims (as I found out when a nice man in a truck backed into my car and drove off). I am sure this arrangement develops over time and is beneficial for both parties. I think some insurance companies will insist that you use certain body chops or a main dealer.
 
Eddie Hobbs suggested on the radio yesterday that consumers find out which motor companies are alleged to be complicit in price fixing and then buying their cars from companies about whom there are no allegations.

Does any one have a list of companies about whom there are price fixing allegations?

aj
 
ajapale said:
Does any one have a list of companies about whom there are price fixing allegations?
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If I remember, from the programme, it was Hyundai, Citroen, Mitsubishi, Peugeot and Volvo.
 
LIVERLIPS said:
Maybe but the Quinn Direct do not actually tell you if somebody has put a claim in against you. As in my case her tow-bar damaged my car so the accessor said it needed a new one. That was it all so how come the quote from the garage said 2,200 euro including a stupid amount of days for car hire and hours of labour.
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So how did the claim come to your attention? I know people feel hard done by when claims are paid out by the insurance company, but in all fairness, it is their decision. You can't expect to 'own' the decision about who pays what, but have someone else (the insurance company) foot the bill.
 
I only found out when i went to re-new my insurance for the next year. I understand that they have to pay out, But surely they should let you know and should query the quote from garages as i stated some insurance companies will not insure you if a payout was over 2000 euro which mine was. Luckily i managed to get a company in the end.
 
AFAIK the insurance company should inform you before they pay out in case you want to accept liability and pursue the issue through the courts etc.
 
I was somewhat amused to pick up the Xmas RTE guide and find the inside front cover is a glossy 3-page advert for new Citreons with the special offer where they will pay the VAT for the buyer! I guess they wouldn't have been so keen to hand over their marketing budget to RTE if they had known what Prime Time were up to!
 
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