And we thought the Catholic Church was meant to be Christian

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RMCF

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I was fuming today listening to some Monsignor getting interviewed on the radio, trying to defend themselves (or Brady in particular) over their lack of response to the whole Brendan Smyth affair and subsequent cover-up.

The CC is dying, and it is very easy to see why. For a supposedly Christian organisation they have a very poor attitude for its followers.

I could not believe that this guy said that "Brady did nothing wrong". He used those words. There was a girl who was abused and raped for 5yrs, yet they knew about it after the 1st year. So this poor child suffered 4 extra years of terrible abuse at the hands of a sick monster, and this guy thinks that Brady did nothing wrong.

I was so angry today listening to him that I would have done something very unChristian to him if I could have got my hands on him.

I cannot understand how they can argue that they are a caring organisation when they have this attitude. And it is rife amongst them.

I really do wish that these people could be charged by the Police under criminal law for withholding information. They cannot seem to grasp the fact that their own actions are helping to add to the demise of the Church in this country and around the world. I think its fairly safe to assume that the Church will be in ruins in the next generation or two as many people because so disillusioned with them and their actions.
 
Not trying for a moment to defend Cardinal Brady or the CC but I cannot understand why the parents of these children in question did not go straight to the gardai in the first instance.. It just baffles me why they left it up to the church to investigate and deal with the complaints. When the CC showed it's response to be wholly inadequate, then why did the parents of the abuse children refer the matter to the civil authorities. I know that my parents certainly would have.
 
Any parent worth their salt would have.

If someone sexually abused your child, why would you NOT go to the police?


And why is it that when people have a few % taken off their wages they will take to the streets etc, yet evil men rape children and cover it up, yet we let them stay in power and do nothing about it. I think its about time the CC was taken on and shown up for the evil organisation that it is.
 
Art said:
Not trying for a moment to defend Cardinal Brady or the CC but I cannot understand why the parents of these children in question did not go straight to the gardai in the first instance.. It just baffles me why they left it up to the church to investigate and deal with the complaints. When the CC showed it's response to be wholly inadequate, then why did the parents of the abuse children refer the matter to the civil authorities. I know that my parents certainly would have.
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Many parents did report the abuse of their children to the police. The police then went to the Church and were told to mind their own business.

RMCF said:
Any parent worth their salt would have.

If someone sexually abused your child, why would you NOT go to the police?
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No, there is no way I would go to the police, not with the miniscule punishments handed out by courts in this country who think robbing a post office is a more serious crime than raping a child. The priest involved would be found nailed to the front door of his church (what was left of him).


RMCF said:
And why is it that when people have a few % taken off their wages they will take to the streets etc, yet evil men rape children and cover it up, yet we let them stay in power and do nothing about it. I think its about time the CC was taken on and shown up for the evil organisation that it is.
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I agree. I have posted here for months that the Vatican state is a hostile power which has sought to undermine our sovereignty by instructing Irish citizens to hold its law as paramount over Irish law and therefore we should break off diplomatic relations, recall our ambassador and expel the Papal Nuncio. We should then seek the extradition of the pope to face criminal charged for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Obviously it would not work but it would cause an international furore and bring the actions of this evil state to the fore on the world stage.
 
Purple said:
I agree. I have posted here for months that the Vatican state is a hostile power which has sought to undermine our sovereignty by instructing Irish citizens to hold its law as paramount over Irish law and therefore we should break off diplomatic relations, recall our ambassador and expel the Papal Nuncio. We should then seek the extradition of the pope to face criminal charged for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Obviously it would not work but it would cause an international furore and bring the actions of this evil state to the fore on the world stage.
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Yes, it is time for that now. Our government are complicit with their inaction.
 
Purple said:
The priest involved would be found nailed to the front door of his church (what was left of him).
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I'm surprised something like this never happened. I can only imagine how I would feel if someone did this to one of my children and I was basically fobbed off. I don't think I could let it rest.
The child abuse enquiry should be extended to all dioseces in the country.
 
Of course this would have nothing to do with Opus Dei and other right wing religious lunatics in the higher echelons of the police force and judiciary? How come that these shadowy groups have remained tight-lipped over all this. The Legionnaries of Christ have done little to bring to light the crimnal excesses of it's founder and only recently have opened up to this.http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/legion_of_christ_responds_to_founders_alleged_children/ Still fudging is the order of the day with no directives coming from the Vatican. Catholics everywhere must be despairing at this flagrant inactivity. But all churchgoers can become active by stopping the flow of money to this behemoth that has cast a dark shadow over their every being from the cradle to the grave.
 
Firefly said:
+1 and I'd be happy to deal with the consequences.
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You mean you would leave your child fatherless at a time of real need, both yours and Purples ideas for justice are emotional understandably, but also selfish.
 
RMCF said:
Any parent worth their salt would have.

If someone sexually abused your child, why would you NOT go to the police?


And why is it that when people have a few % taken off their wages they will take to the streets etc, yet evil men rape children and cover it up, yet we let them stay in power and do nothing about it. I think its about time the CC was taken on and shown up for the evil organisation that it is.
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I've heard seen the looking at the parents creep into this more and more within the media, in particular as some kind of defence. I just can't agree with it.

We forget several things, first is that these priest specifically preyed on vulnerable children without strong parental support or broken homes. Second is the huge deference that some parents would have had to the Church. The parents thought they were doing right by letting the church handle it. Plus the church "forgot" to mention that their process was only a disciplinary process and that the parents should go to the gardai. Many of those parents across the world who did report it were led to believe that the church would handle everything for them.

And last, as mentioned some cases were notified to the Gardai and they failed to ask.

This all comes down to pretty much the very first act when the state was formed where it pledged itself to allegiance with the Vatican, a separate sovereign state.

They were given too much power and too much immunity. The fact that even in 1975 it was ok to do what Brady did infuriates me.
 
MrMan said:
You mean you would leave your child fatherless at a time of real need, both yours and Purples ideas for justice are emotional understandably, but also selfish.
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I’m not suggesting it would be justice; it would be a violent emotional vengeance. I would like to think that I would be able to react in a more reasoned way but experience has thought me otherwise.
 
Purple said:
I have posted here for months that the Vatican state is a hostile power which has sought to undermine our sovereignty by instructing Irish citizens to hold its law as paramount over Irish law and therefore we should break off diplomatic relations, recall our ambassador and expel the Papal Nuncio. We should then seek the extradition of the pope to face criminal charged for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
.
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This is what any right and proper government who had the interests of it's citizens at heart should do. This is not what the Irish government will do.
 
Purple said:
I’m not suggesting it would be justice; it would be a violent emotional vengeance. I would like to think that I would be able to react in a more reasoned way but experience has thought me otherwise.
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Lets not pretend to be something we are not, i agree with Purple. pure emotion would take over and you would deal with the consequences afterwards. Anyone who thinks they would have a rational mind if they found out their child was being abused is either sadly mistaken or stupid.
 
I am still shocked and somewhat disgusted at the number of people who go to church every Sunday and stick their hands in their pockets to hand over money (most of my in-laws included). If only one Sunday churches stayed empty, CC / Vatican would have no choice but to change tack.

As already mentioned, there is an uproar for a lot smaller stuff but child abuse somehow seems to slip unpunished. It's the mentality that not all priests are bad BUT I can't stop wondering how is it possible that all those 'good' priests never noticed that something was off or did anything about it.
 
MrMan said:
You mean you would leave your child fatherless at a time of real need, both yours and Purples ideas for justice are emotional understandably, but also selfish.
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I never said when I'd do it.

Anyway, I'd blame Purple :p
 
Yachtie said:
I am still shocked and somewhat disgusted at the number of people who go to church every Sunday and stick their hands in their pockets to hand over money (most of my in-laws included). If only one Sunday churches stayed empty, CC / Vatican would have no choice but to change tack.
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Its the herd mentality. Until people start to question why they do what they do it will continue to go on. Most catholics that I know only go to church sometimes, want to get nice piccys for their wedding so use a church for it, but attendance is rare other than that, get the kids baptised because the relations expect it, or theyre afraid they wont be able to get the kids into a local school etc...

They dont look at the bigger picture.
 
Yachtie said:
I am still shocked and somewhat disgusted at the number of people who go to church every Sunday and stick their hands in their pockets to hand over money (most of my in-laws included). If only one Sunday churches stayed empty, CC / Vatican would have no choice but to change tack.
.
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And one such devotee yesterday who stated the abused have: "had their pound of flesh" and it's time to stop picking on the clergy.
 
In my mind, the Cardinal is guilty of intimidating witnesses/victims of serious crimes and he should face criminal charges for this.

If some criminal gang intimidates the witnessess/victims of e.g. a robbery or murder, the authorities attemtp to come down on them like a ton of bricks and sometimes even use the Special Criminal Court as a prosecution route. People also get prosecuted for being involved in criminal gangs.

Abusing children is a serious crime that ranks with or is more serious than armed robbery, importing drugs, murder etc. The CC is acting just like a criminal gang - intimidating witnesses, making sure its members do not pass info to the Gardai, protecting criminals etc. Why arent we seeing some prosecutions?

What is most sickening is that the Cardinal thinks that he has done no wrong and/or is above the law. His attitude to the questioning by RTE was sick.
 
truthseeker said:
Most catholics that I know only go to church sometimes, want to get nice piccys for their wedding so use a church for it, but attendance is rare other than that, get the kids baptised because the relations expect it, or theyre afraid they wont be able to get the kids into a local school etc...

They dont look at the bigger picture.
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I aggree with this and as someone that had their children baptised I have mentioned in a previous thread I am undecided whether they make their communion/confirmation. I do feel a bit of a hypocrite as I do no attend church.

In reality though, how far would most people go to boycott the church?
Would they refuse to get their child baptised or attend weddings and funerals in protest of the churche's approach to the child abuse scandals?
 
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