Am I alone in thinking ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving mad!

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Yeah, those shocking pay rises that allowed us to earn enough to both buy a small house AND eat! We really shouldn't have been given those.

Isn't it funny how those people giving out about too high minimum/industrial wages are generally the ones who earn 6 figure salaries? Its the little guy earning a tenner an hour that ruined the country though.....?

Look at the OECD figures on pay in Ireland.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

And your point being?

I have seen them. But I've also seen the payslips for my family, and the hard won increase in my husbands pay (strong union) wouldn't keep you in newspapers. We live on amounts that you would laugh at, and its going down all the time, as we just lost the paltry bit of overtime and a split shift allowance that took years to win.

I’m not going to get into a “Who’s got the best sob story” tit-for-tat with you but I started working full time at 17 (part time at 14) and for the first 12 years never did less than 65 flat hours a week (and often working over 80), most weeks it was 6.5 days. From day one (at 14) I paid tax on my wages, going onto the higher tax band (then 48%) as a third year apprentice.
What’s my point? If you need more money get a second job/ work more overtime/ get a different job. The next time you need a pay rise try earning it rather than “winning” it; it shouldn’t be a battle.

 

[Shawady]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?

Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Are you suggesting that this is actual evidence linking Purple's comment that the unions have damaged the economy or just another cheap anti union shot. I strongly supect it is the latter.

It was a cheap shot....and yes everybody involved in inflating our average wage and reducing our tax base is responsible for damaging the economy.

The unions, like government, took the populist decsions that have brought us to the brink of ruin

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Yeah, those shocking pay rises that allowed us to earn enough to both buy a small house AND eat! We really shouldn't have been given those.

The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages.

If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.

I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Believe me you would not argue that they earn too much if you were living on that money.

I did live on that money. I spent years when needing a new tyre for my bicycle (which I used to get in and out of work) was a big deal. I know it’s not easy. That’s not the point; the point is that on a broad general level the country could not afford the pay increases that were given out. On a specific level it is the case that some people are still underpaid for what they do but more are overpaid for what they do. Remember that people are paid according to what they earn, not what they need. The communists tried that and it didn’t work out too well for them.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages.

If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.

I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people

Well said

 

[becky]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?

Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.

I agree there isn't hugh support for a strike. Impact have put the HSE on notice of industrial action without further warning and I expect that all other unions will do the same.

I noticed the other day that Liam Doran called the 30th March a national day of protest which in my view means some lunchtime protests and not industrial action in the form of a strike.

 

[gipimann]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?

Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.

People I've spoken to (public and civil servants) about it aren't in favour of striking and have voted no.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

I can’t comment on your specific case as I don’t know you or your circumstances but I’m sure it’s not easy.
What I do know is that companies are not just moving to cheap labour countries like China, India and Costa Rica but they are moving to Holland and Switzerland because they are cheaper too.
Allowing ourselves to become more expensive than the Northern part of mainland Europe is like slitting our own throat. It starts at the top with our government and parliament and how much they are paid and our banks who think they need to pay their CEO’s and senior staff the same as major international banks but it also applies to everyone else in the country.
Look at what you get paid and ask yourself if your counterpart in France, Germany, Holland or the UK gets paid the same or less. If the answer is yes then you get paid too much. That applies to me and you and Brian Cowan and a high court Judge.

 

[Shawady]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

the point is that on a broad general level the country could not afford the pay increases that were given out. On a specific level it is the case that some people are still underpaid for what they do but more are overpaid for what they do. Remember that people are paid according to what they earn, not what they need. The communists tried that and it didn’t work out too well for them.

I would aggree with a lot of that but I think it is worth saying that it was not only pay increases in the public service that was the problem.
The government has spent the past 10 years throwing money at problems whether it be increasing ps numbers in the health service, early childcare supplement, the bertie bowl, thorntan hall (new prision), e-voting machines (which now cost 700k a year to store), increasing social welfare benefits.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

I would aggree with a lot of that but I think it is worth saying that it was not only pay increases in the public service that was the problem.
The government has spent the past 10 years throwing money at problems whether it be increasing ps numbers in the health service, early childcare supplement, the bertie bowl, thorntan hall (new prision), e-voting machines (which now cost 700k a year to store), increasing social welfare benefits.

I agree, I wasn't just talking about the public sector at all.

 

[Shawady]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

I agree, I wasn't just talking about the public sector at all.

Fair enough, I misinterpreted a previous post and though people were just discussing public sector unions.

Has anyone any thoughts about what happen if some of the unions voted against strike action?
It woud surely have implications for the guys at the top in ICTU.

 

[cole]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

My union voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action. However most of my colleagues do not want to strike. The option afforded us by the union were either a) industrial action including work to rule up to and including 2 strike days or b) no industrial action. We would all have preferred if a strike ballot were held seperately. Striking will lose me a day's pay for no hope of return.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

I do understand your point.

For someone who didn’t understand my point you did a very good job of answering it (and I’m not being sarcastic)

My OH's counterpart in the UK gets paid more, and I'm not sure about the others. Would think they would be similar or more.

Then benchmarking him against our EU counterparts (the benchmarking that matters) he is not overpaid. I am not making a point specific to your husband/partner; it’s a more general point (and government policy should be set based on the medium to long term interests of the majority with social policy helping those that are left behind).

I think though, that your last point is interesting. Doesn't Brian Cowen get paid far far more than his counterparts, like, anywhere? Probably true for the high court judge as well. But its still the minimum wage that always get attacked, not their salaries. Why is that?

Both should be looked at from a broad perspective. Leaders should to lead by example. TD’s, in my opinion, should be looking at a 25% pay cut, the same for judges etc.
Only 3.3% of the Irish workforce is on the minimum wage so it’s not the rate but the knock-on effect that it has on wage inflation across the economy that matters.

And yes, its obviously a bad thing if other countries are cheaper than us. By slashing wage costs at the bottom, you may improve our attractiveness to overseas investment, obviously a good thing. But how are those workers to survive? Cost of living doesn't go down much.

Cost of living does go down quite a bit as wages drop. Property prices have dropped, as has rent, utilities and other input costs so therefore the cost of doing business has dropped. This allows retailers to drop prices to chase (but not match) the reduced consumer spending power that we have at the moment.

Are we to suffer so we can get those investments so Brian Cowen can justify his big salary?

No

Money comes back into the country, somebody does well, but we just get poorer and poorer, and the unions long gone too if you had your way?

No, as money comes into the economy it will increase demand which in turn will create more jobs and lead to wage inflation again. As long as we don’t lose the run of ourselves again that shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[Green]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Are you suggesting that the highest after tax minimum wage in the EU, pushed for by the breaded Brethren, and two rounds of the Benchmarking fiasco have had no impact on our competitiveness?
Union leaders proliferate our state and semi-state boards, with the Eminence grise himself, David Begg, sitting on the board of both the central Bank and the ESRI.

Of course it affected our competitiveness but they had to seek pay increases to allow people to be able to afford homes. You might have noticed a slight rise in house prices from 1995 till 2006 Also, the ESRI did warn the Govt about the affects of house price rises and the dependance on construction revenues.

 

[Green]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages.

If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.

I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people

I agree with your points on house prices, FF made all the wrong decisions on this and land use planing from the 1960's onwards.

 

[Purple]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Of course it affected our competitiveness but they had to seek pay increases to allow people to be able to afford homes. You might have noticed a slight rise in house prices from 1995 till 2006 Also, the ESRI did warn the Govt about the affects of house price rises and the dependance on construction revenues.

I agree so why did the Bearded Brethren look for pay increases instead of measures to reduce the cost of housing (or at least stop the rate of increase)?
Answer; they knew that the pay increases they got for their members were being funded by transaction taxes on construction during a construction bubble; the same short-termism as Bertie and his merry band of clowns.

 

[micmclo]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

Striking will lose me a day's pay for no hope of return.

If you go an union approved strike, surely your union would pay you strike pay?
After all, don't they collect money for these events.

I don't know a whole lot about the process but I assumed strike pay would be given, no?

 

[Caveat]

Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th

I don't know if its standard across union, but ours only pays strike pay for strikes lasting more than 3 days. And its only about 150 euro for a full week, and thats if you stand on the line for your full shift everyday.

Interesting thanks - never knew that.