AIB write off 150k. IMHO helped.

Sorry to be cynical but I fear this news story is nothing more than a desperate attempt by Hall / AIB to entice distressed borrowers to engage.
There is no secret that one of the bigger problems facing the banks right now is getting distressed borrowers to engage with the "process"

Why on earth would a bank do a "write-off" deal and then make a concerted media campaign to announce it. I think everyone can clearly see the motivation behind it. I would have my own personal misgivings about the authenticity of this news story
 
Dr.Debt said:
There is no secret that one of the bigger problems facing the banks right now is getting distressed borrowers to engage with the "process"
Click to expand...

Which is precisely why the banks have engaged IMHO and are paying them. Consumers see David Hall as someone they can trust and deal with, on the other hand they see the banks as the enemy as they have been hounding them for a few years.

Presumably IMHO is a streamlined team dedicated to getting a solution, and they have a direct line to the banks decision maker. Anyone dealing with banks is passed from pillar to post, with one nincompoop to another, resulting in people giving up. When you have 25 year olds asking you why you didn't buy your toilet roll in Aldi, than IMHO who will take it from a different angle, ie what do you really want, then one can see the attraction.
 
Hi Bronte , I agree with the points you make.

My point is that this newspaper report is not what it appears to be at first glance.

At fist glance its an interesting news story about someone who has managed to get a bank to write off some money.

The cynical side of me says its a"staged" press release by the parties involved to entice more people to engage with their process.

In conclusion some people may think that the story is about AIB writing off debt, It is in fact a carefully stage press release to try and entice more people to engage.

If this is true then I feel people would much prefer an open and honest approach from the banks instead of being hoodwinked from the outset like this.
 
I think conspiracy is a bit strong but definitely more advertisement, less news story.
 
Well nothing new there - a significant chunk of "news" reporting is just rehashed press releases. Read "Flat Earth News" by Nick Davies for example and see what he says about "churnalism".
 
Dr.Debt said:
In conclusion some people may think that the story is about AIB writing off debt, It is in fact a carefully stage press release to try and entice more people to engage.

If this is true then I feel people would much prefer an open and honest approach from the banks instead of being hoodwinked from the outset like this.
Click to expand...

2 things on this, everybody, well nearly everybody don't think they are being hoodwinked by the banks, they all believe it. And it's true, the Irish were taken to the cleaners by the banks.

Secondly, this story is about the bank writing off debt, they are, they always have, and they always will, the story is press managed, all corporates do this, but it's good for the bank, good for the borrowers and good for Irish society that people now engage.

This story along with posters in the last while gives me hope that the banks are finally seeing the light and offering people solutions.

I believe you are in debt management yourself, maybe even a PIP? IMHO/David Hall has pulled off an amazing feat with his IMHO. He's managed the a) get customers to engage and b) get the banks to pay for it c) get deals done d) outdone PIPs e) shown up the nonsense that is the Irish insolvency service f) made a mockery of government policy on dealing with debt
 
ClubMan said:
Well nothing new there - a significant chunk of "news" reporting is just rehashed press releases.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it was, someone rang up Charlie Weston to put out the 'right' story. Weston himself wrote an article on the very same day on this story. If you read the two articles you can see they read like press releases, you just move a few words around. Makes the reporters life easier too.

In another couple of months in the Indo I'm expecting page spreads on distressed property sales. But with a positive angle for the banks as they will in the property supplement be paying big bucks for advertising.

You heard it here first folks.
 
Bronte said:
I believe it's more than one bank, maybe it's that he's in talks with some other banks. I'll try and find a link.
Click to expand...
OK - I thought it was just AIB (and by extension EBS and Haven) but maybe it's more. But anyway - it does seem to me that it would be worth some people talking to IMHO alright if they can get results like this. Whether or not such individual deals are fair or right or commercially sensible is another matter I guess...
 
Stories like this wouldn't harm someone's chances of getting votes in the European Elections either. If the rumours are true of course!
 
Hi Bronte

The IMHO is running a very strong media campaign about their activities. How successful they are in getting debtors to engage is another question. I don't have sufficient or reliable enough information on their success rate to comment on that but I would place a question mark there where you don't seem to have one. Have IMHO been successful ? I would like to know if they have managed to follow through with the kind of numbers that they forecast from the start. I think it would be interesting for them to announce their success rate. Surely there would be no better advertisement to other debtors than to announce their success rate in graphic detail and especially if it is true that they have managed to put through hundreds of deals as is reported elsewhere.

I wouldn't agree that the IMHO have outdone PIPs. I dont mind admitting that I am a PIP and a busy PIP at that. As a PIP, I can tell you that I'm not busy with formal insolvency arrangements per se. I find that only about 10% of all my clients are suitable for a formal insolvency arrangement. Out of that 10% only about 4% follow through to a formal arrangement. I find that people who are eligible and suitable for formal insolvency arrangements will invariably have alternative options as well. Very often the alternative options are more attractive.I'm not sure if I'm representative of a typical PIP (I'm not a full time PIP by any means)however I can tell you that my PIP time is consumed with assisting people evaluating their options and assisting them through informal arrangements and bankruptcy preparation. We have had lots of success helping people communicate with their banks and achieving deals. There's no fanfare and press announcements. Its all done quietly with the minimum of fuss. My assessment of the situation is that 55% of cases can be solved through informal arrangements with banks. People who are not financially savvy need assistance with evaluating their situation and they need assistance communicating with creditors. Lots of cases can be solved relatively easily like this without having to enter into a very bureaucratic process. This is the work that the IMHO is involved in also. 35% of cases are bankruptcy cases, plain and simple and 10% are suitable for formal insolvency arrangements (but only 4% of these will actually proceed)

I have grave doubts at this stage that the ISI will ever really be effective. It will never get the numbers that it once thought it would get. I accept that what the IMHO is providing is actually what is needed (the manner in which it advertises is my only dislike) So when Bronte says that PIPs have been outdone. I think you mean the ISI has been outdone. Many PIPs are doing similar work to the IMHO

The ISI is an organisation full of very capable and good people however its trying to manage a dinosaur which in my estimation will only serve about 4% of total distressed borrowers. The 4% usually represents people with good incomes and multi banked.I think whats needed now is a network of PIPs concentrated on helping clients achieve informal settlements with their creditors in a very streamlined way. I think this is what the clients want. This is what the banks want and this is what many PIPs want. The cost of negotiating an informal arrangement with a bank will be a small fraction of what a formal arrangement costs. At the moment the tail is wagging the dog. Informal arrangements and bankruptcy is where all the action will be for the foreseeable future. Major restructuring is needed before the formal process can work. Unfortunately there is major denial building up around this and it will be some time still before anyone will admit that the Emperor has no clothes. Obviously this is just the experience of one PIP and I accept that other PIPs may have had different experiences and may come to different conclusions
 
Bronco Lane.
Interesting comments.

You highlighted that THEY would have convinced the Banks.
.......................................................................
In fluffy times the Banks were gagging to shovel out the money.
I assume this couple, like others ,took Mr (professional)Bankers advice on what they could afford. Upshot was couple and in particular Mr (professional)Banker were hoping salaries would keep on the up and had no expectation of ever seeing lower nett pay.
Could it be that AIB belatedly accept that original mortgage was always at best a challenge? AIB will not admit that their actions fuelled the problem, but remember mortgages were being given out @ 5 times salary by these (professionals) ?

I also take on board your comment on Rates not increasing.
Had they increased I shudder to think were we would be at!
 
Dr.Debt said:
Hi Bronte

The IMHO is running a very strong media campaign about their activities. How successful they are in getting debtors to engage is another question. I don't have sufficient or reliable enough information on their success rate to comment on that but I would place a question mark there where you don't seem to have one. Have IMHO been successful ? I would like to know if they have managed to follow through with the kind of numbers that they forecast from the start. I think it would be interesting for them to announce their success rate. Surely there would be no better advertisement to other debtors than to announce their success rate in graphic detail and especially if it is true that they have managed to put through hundreds of deals as is reported elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I am surprised at the suspicions of IMHO expressed by debt advisors generally - not just you Dr Debt.

Here are the numbers you asked for

https://www.mortgageholders.ie/blog...-on-initiative-between-imho-and-aib-ebs-haven

AIB is happy, because they have given them more money to expand it.
KBC checked it out and thought enough of it to set up a similar initiative.

They are far more transparent than private debt advisors. I have no idea what your relationship is like with AIB or what your success record is. I have a fair idea of IMHO's. And they don't charge.

Brendan
 
Hi Brendan

I have no beef with the IMHO. I'm surprised to hear that they dont charge a fee. I previously heard 800 euro but that's possibly not correct so.

The initial target from IMHO was to settle 300 cases per month. Based on the link you provided, it seems that they have succeeded in getting settlements on about 40 cases per month. Number of cases solved per employee head / per month is therefore only 8 so no better (and probably less) than a good PIP is managing to do at the moment and PIPs are not getting public endorsements from AIB or anyone else.

Its not a ****ing contest. Its not about who is doing the most work or solving most cases. For me its all about the big picture and the best way to solve the mess in overall terms and the best way to get the debtors to engage with the process
 
Dr.Debt said:
. I'm surprised to hear that they dont charge a fee. I previously heard 800 euro but that's possibly not correct so.
Click to expand...

Very informative post earlier there Dr. Debt.

The 800 Euro fee sounds about right, I understand that applies to those who are not AIB/KBC etc.

My view of IMHO is that they are now doing the job the insolvency service ought to have done. Going further, Mabs should have been the IMHO/insolvency agency and free to users.

The insolvency service has managed with all it's staff about 8 cases, how many staff and at what cost I wonder.

Mabs cannot even get people though the 'simple' debt relief system - see poster GuineaPig. IMHO won't ever handle these type of cases because it's not going to be a money spinner.

You yourself seem to be seeing a lot of people but getting no return, I imagine it's the same for many PIP's and eventually you'll give up on it.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Here are the numbers you asked for

https://www.mortgageholders.ie/blog...-on-initiative-between-imho-and-aib-ebs-haven

They are far more transparent than private debt advisors.
Click to expand...


You see based on just that link you have to hand it to IMHO, clear and transparent. Go onto the insolvency website by comparison, really slick, really complicated, presumably newly designed at hugh cost, impossible to find anything easily, and no figures that are of any meaning.
 
Some banks (UB) are simply not doing anything - split mortgages, write offs etc. Doesn't matter who you hire to act on your behalf, if the bank isn't doing anything, there is NOTHING you can do (Assuming you don't want to go down the insolvency route etc).

In broad terms, it's all a numbers and statistics game, you will be offered a 3yr interest only option so if you agree, you are now classed as a file in the "restructured" basket and go towards hitting their Central Banks target.

Don't forget, it is cheaper for the bank to enforce and take the property than write off a large NE chunk in one go.
 
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