Advice please, How to protect a business idea

N

New biz

Registered User
Messages
7
Hey folks,

I am currently a sole trader, but I have discovered a niche in the market locally for a new business completely different to what I do now (it's proved very successful in other countries), as I've been a sole trader for so long I understand the basics of self employment, but I have only ever looked after myself (not currently vat registered, pay income tax, no employees, not a Ltd company etc).
I am very much good at what I do so have never been without work (just being honest not bragging), I take my business very seriously and I also have learned a lot over these last 8-10 years especially about marketing, getting new customers, advertising etc and understand how this all works but also not afraid to try new things and a lot of the times have proved successful so I have the right confidence going into new business.

However, my new business would be bigger than what I am now, it will require a medium to large premises, expensive equipment and set up costs (€130-160k) and require around 6-8 staff full and part time so would be creating local employment also... A lot bigger than what I am now but I have full confidence in that it would be a success, my problem is setting it up, where to next.

I have a solicitor who is willing to talk to me along with an accountant (these guys work together) they both specialise in start ups and making business plans, seeking funding/grants etc.

I do not know any business people personally whom I can 'pick their brains' but I am also worried that this solicitor and accountant for all I know could steal my idea and off they go to set up or fund it themselves or somebody they know.

Is there anything I can do to protect myself going into meeting with these guys on a confidentiality basis ? Or am I open to the lions den on this one.. Should I set up a company before hand with the cro or get domain names set up, should I make them sign something or am I just being over cautious and untrusting etc,


Any advice of any shape and form will be greatly appreciated.
 
Bank of Ireland have a business plan template that does have a confidentiality agreement at the beginning.
 
@ richinspirit
Do you have any links to this ? Is this required to go through bank of ireland to do this plan or can you just use the template and go elsewhere...

Thanks for your replies guys
 
Leo said:
Please edit your thread title to make it more meaningful.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you want to know?

What are the barriers to entry for this product that works successfully elsewhere?

Have u done an honest SWOT analysis?

A confidentiality agreement is really not worth the paper it is written on unless you have the resources to go after folks through the courts like the The Redacted One does.
Is the product patented, trade marked, franchised etc.

On setting up the business try and key as many costs variable
 
Hi New Biz. I had a look at that business template pdf that I downloaded from somewhere on the BOI website.
There is a slot for a confidentiality agreement but it says "insert text here" so you have to work on your own text.

I would suggest that if you have a half decent relationship with your solicitor you just tell him up front that you have a brilliant business idea that you want his help with but you don't want him to run away with your idea. He should be able to come up with a confidentiality agreement.


There's a good chance that only you will think that your idea is worth robbing.

You could always talk to a different solicitor solely about the confidentiality agreement to ensure no conflict of interests.
 
Hi moderater,

Is that title ok ? Apologies but I'm new around here :)

I have not done a swot analysis but will be looking into that, i just wanted advice to protect myself from the get go as much as possible, i think you may be right about talking to another solicitor about the confidentiality and I may do that first thank you.

I am giving myself 1-2 years to get things moving on this and am only at the very beginning stages (as you can probably tell)

The product is not patented, trade marked or franchised as far as I know.. It is just a case of me buying (I don't think there is a lease option) the equipment from a specialist supplier and hopefully setting up in a premises to provide a service (rather than product)

I appreciate your time in replying to me..
 
New biz said:
I have not done a swot analysis but will be looking into that, i just wanted advice to protect myself from the get go as much as possible, i think you may be right about talking to another solicitor about the confidentiality and I may do that first thank you
Click to expand...
This is probably the least of your concerns in starting off a new business or broadly expanding an existing one. Unless you have a product that you can patent it is virtually impossible to stop anyone copying your business idea. You just need to work with solicitor/accountant you can trust.
Requirement of a medium/large premises plus set up costs implies a significant level of capital input for the start-up. Having a great business idea on its own is just a small part of creating a successful business. There is a significant transition from being a sole trader to running a medium size business with employees, creditors etc. This risk can be considerably reduced by taking on a partner/investor with some level of experience in the sector and an ability to input some capital into the project.
I have experience myself of opening a start up business which was a franchise operation. I can say with certainty that without the assistance of the franchisor I would not have coped with all of the new skills and various requirements (including employment laws) which were needed to even open the doors for trading.
I wish you well in your efforts but don't be afraid to ask for help at this early stage. Also ensure that you have a comprehensive business plan in place prior to committing any funds to the project and ensure that the plan is independently reviewed by your accountant. Remember also that you are prejudiced towards the success of your project and keep the mantra "fail to prepare. prepare to fail" in mind at all times.
 
New biz said:
Is that title ok ? Apologies but I'm new around here :)
Click to expand...

Perfect, thanks. The title is paramount in giving yourself the best chance that those with knowledge or experience to share will take the time to click in to the thread to read it. A vague title means many people just move on to the next thread.
 
44brendan said:
Unless you have a product that you can patent it is virtually impossible to stop anyone copying your business idea. You just need to work with solicitor/accountant you can trust.
Click to expand...

Exactly and from what the OP has said so far, there does not seem to be anything there, other than the adaptation of an existing product and service to a new market.
 
Jim2007 said:
Exactly and from what the OP has said so far, there does not seem to be anything there, other than the adaptation of an existing product and service to a new market.
Click to expand...

There is not something there you are correct which is why I'm being over cautious at this stage, now the thing seems to be how do I trust a solicitor that I do not know very well (my current general solicitor is not experienced enough in this sector), maybe I will just need to take the plunge and hope for the best, if you think I'm being too cautious and untrusting or if I'm doing the right thing here by asking please say.

As for working with someone (an investor) I have thought about this and would very much be open to working this way and also with someone, however what I need to know now is how can I get this off to a start that I'm credited enough to be seen for investment or that I'm involved enough in this business at the start that it becomes my own, surely an idea is just not enough, should I have domain names ? a company business set up first before I seek investment or help ? i.e not just turning up at an investors door telling them I've great idea but nothing else, is a decent business plan enough ?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
In general I would consider the risk of a solicitor taking a business idea from a client and running with it himself as being extremely low. There may be the odd scoundrel out there but the majority are generally OK. Same with accountants. They come across new businesses on a regular basis but would be unlikely to steal the ideas for themselves!! Provided solcr/accountant are established & reputable you should take the risk.
The 2nd part of your query relates back to the 1st. I.e. You need specific professional guidance in making these decisions.
 
New biz said:
I have a solicitor who is willing to talk to me along with an accountant (these guys work together).
Click to expand...

This doesn't sound good. A solicitor and accountant should be independent of each other if they are representing the same customer.
 
T McGibney said:
This doesn't sound good. A solicitor and accountant should be independent of each other if they are representing the same customer.
Click to expand...

I think they are independent of each other, afaik they have just worked together on getting grants for small to medium businesses and done up plans etc but don't officially work in the same office, he Is a semi retired solicitor and seems to be a nice guy but I would still like to have my side of things in order before I go to him.
 
The accountants connection with the solicitor wouldn't wash with me. I would be looking at them both in isolation. Just because your solicitor has a connection with them doesn't mean it will be the right fit for you.

I would recommend getting a non disclosure agreement drafted if you want comfort over over someone not talking your idea, although realistically the chances of that are slim and non. Any corporate finance/finance house worth their salt see high calibre individuals with good ideas quite regularly and I can assure you that stealing an idea is the last thing on their minds. Imagine the reputational damage alone that would do alone.

Your concept/idea is at a far to early stage to speak to funders as you have mentioned. I would lock down your business plan and then look to speak to a boutique finance house/specialist in this field then about next steps (the big houses won't look at it as its too small). Be prepared to pay for good advice. It's not an area where you should cheap out on.
 
44brendan said:
Any example of such a financier?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same.. Is there many places willing to offer investment on the private side of things ?

I have also chatted with a Friend of mine who has a contact who is familiar with business start ups etc so hopefully I will get to meet him soon to run some things by.

If you guys have any more pearls of wisdom I'm very much appreciative and all ears ;)
 
Having done a couple of startups myself, and met and got advice from many others who have done the same, I'd say the following:

- It is very common for first-time entrepreneurs to assume that having had an idea that people will want to steal it. The exact opposite is generally the case: believe me, it takes a lot of effort to convince people an idea is worth anything. Of all the problems you will face, idea theft is likely to be a very small one. See the first couple of answers at the following for more on this: https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-protect-a-brilliant-idea-when-founding-a-startup

- As a source of general business advice, your Local Enterprise Office (LEO) is a good starting point. One of the things they can do is put you in touch with a mentor, who can offer the kind of advice you need. Enterprise Ireland (EI) may also be worth taking to, as it sounds like you're thinking of some form of manufacturing. If it is, you may also be able to get some funding for a feasibility study.

- I'd be wary of getting anyone offering services like writing business plans or getting funding for you: that's something that you should really do yourself. There are loads of template plans out there, and plenty of advice to be had (through LEO or EI)

- I would defer getting solicitors or accountants involved (unless you're not paying for them) or in actually setting up a company until you absolutely have to. By this I mean at least until you have a very clear idea of what your plan of action is and what needs to be done. You can spend/waste a lot of cash if you are not careful.

- Get networking: in general, people who have been through the experience of starting are more than willing to share what they've learned.

- Is there any way you can get started in the business or an area that is related to it without the significant up-front cost you mention? Can you start selling something to the same market, for example? This would make it much easier to raise funding if you can show some traction into a market where you've a demonstrated ability to sell.
 
Last edited:
newtothis said:
Having done a couple of startups myself, and met and got advice from many others who have done the same, I'd say the following:


- As a source of general business advice, your Local Enterprise Office (LEO) is a good starting point. One of the things they can do is put you in touch with a mentor, who can offer the kind of advice you need. Enterprise Ireland (EI) may also be worth taking to, as it sounds like you're thinking of some form of manufacturing. If it is, you may also be able to get some funding for a feasibility study.

- I'd be wary of getting anyone offering services like writing business plans or getting funding for you: that's something that you should really do yourself. There are loads of template plans out there, and plenty of advice to be had (through LEO or EI)

.
Click to expand...

I'm involved in LEO and sit on some of the approval committees. Have to say I 100% echo what is said above. There is some great advice and support to be got from LEO and more start ups should be aware of it and most of it is free. The mentoring can be very useful as you get an outside and neutral view of what you are doing. EI is likely to be too early at this stage, LEO clients tend to move on to there from LEO unless it is a larger start up with export potential. There are also a lot of specific industry schemes (eg there is a specific one for food and drink) that can be good as well. LEO also do some very useful courses, at worst, you'll meet lots of other people starting up so you will not feel so isolated. Good networking opportunity.
LEO often can also provide office space/desks for start ups and grand aid. The latter process can seem a little bureaucratic but they are giving away taxpayers money so naturally there can be some caution. If they do reject you, there is usually a good reason for it, I've seen applications rejected mulutiple times to force the business owner to properly think through what he was doing before he got final approval. One thing LEO have been doing recently is giving €2-€4k in grant aid to allow companies set up an e commerce presence

2 other sources worth considering. Many 3rd level institutions have innovation/entrepreneurship centres. Secondly, if you are in rural Ireland, consider checking if your business meets the requirement for LEADER funding and support
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top