Advice for FTB worried about amount we are borrowing

Mag2006

Registered User
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191
Hi guys,

My head is about to blow up over the past couple of days, my husband is the same. As the title states, we are FTB's, put a deposit on a brand new 4 bed semi €440k in Wicklow town & due to sign contracts in the coming days and have loan approval.
I use this site for reference alot and think it's fab but despite hearing about it in the press alot recently & subsequently reading the thread about the MARKET CRASHING. I am terrified about what we are about to do, my husband and I feel that if the housing market was to go belly up we would be one of the first to be destroyed by it, then if it goes the other way we are fine.
I would really appreciate some genuine advice and opinions as we have also discussed ringing our solicitor to cancel & get the deposit back and get a cheaper house (in Co. Wicklow...where?!?) or just hang on and see what happens. We could be making the biggest mistake or the best descision of our lives here. We have 2 children under 4 to consider aswell and we don't want them to suffer if there WAS a downturn.

Right here goes....
Joint income is €76,500 per annum, childcare will be €1,100 from Sept due to one of the kids starting school, we own both our cars outright, currently paying €1,200 p.m rent no probs for over 5 years (sick of it-want our own family home), have good savings which helped us getting mortgage but we have an o/s loan with credit union of €7k,current pay cash €100 p.w no prob, we often pay more to get it down faster. The usual grocery & clothing bills, utility bills, life assurance €180, motor costs incl tax & insurance about €2k per annum.We have a lovely life, financially very secure, only thing missing was our own home. We could not go for a house until this year as we were waiting on hubbie to be made permanent in his job prior to that he was contracting so unreliable income made it hard to get on the property ladder. I have had the same perm job for 4 years now.
We are just worried about it, we are looking at €1,800 per month repayments over 35 years, which we can manage but what if the interest rates rise, we could be totally finished, or are we just panicking. We just don't want to get to the stage where we can't afford to get shoes for the kids or something like that when at present we are saving and don't have to worry about buying things!. Ideally, we would like to have a €1,200 per month mortgage but we would never get a decent house for that price now the way the market is unless we want a shoebox and with 2 small kids we need space and bedrooms etc.
Hubbie's job based in Sandyford, I am in the city centre and kids in creche in Bray so commute will only be an extra 20 mins each way per day so ideal.
What do you think???...are we mad or doing the right thing. I am worried about what COULD happen, then again we want our own family home for our kids, at this stage they deserve it after renting for so long!!.
Thanks in advance....Mag.
 
Every one gets nerves when they buy their first property because often that it when it seems the most expensive. So thats normal.

As you state you need a house so i think it is important to have a family home that you and your family can enjoy. Thats what life is all about.

I would suggest getting the best fixed mortgage that you can get. Fix it for 5 years for example. Its going to be more expensive in the short run but in the long run you should break-even or even gain over a variable mortgage. You may (big may aswell) lose slightly over a variable but how much is peace of mind worth to you.

Go ahead. Fortune favours the brave.
 
I would go with the 440k house - you may regret not doing it - Financially you are better off than most and appear to have a sensible attitude to money and loans - If you go for the smaller house - teh liklihood is that in a few years time you will regret it and to move upwards will cost more in terms of stamp duty etc ...
 
For the dreaded C***h word.... unless you plan to sell you house it won't matter to you if the prices drop.... I know was told I was mad to buy a house last year becuase of the coming crash , and I know people who go laughed at 5 years ago for spending €200k on a house (worth €370 at last check).... anyone who says that they know when the crash will happen is a fool...


about interest rates rising can you fix the rate... most banks should let you fix for up to 5 years , costs a bit more but gives you peace of mind, and I persume the kids will be out of childcare in 5 years so that will help....

you say you currenlty pay €1200 a month in rent and mortgage is going to be €1800 .... see if you can put €600 a side for the next few months... if it troubles you to do this then you can't afford it... if you can then things look good....
 
Hi Mag2006,

Understandable to be apprehensive about your move. Looks like you have your figures worked out and you can afford the new home without stretching yourself too much. Now factor in a 2% interest rate increase (stress test). What does your monthly cash flow look like now?

No point in trying to time the market. You want your own family home. If this is the house for you and the figures above look ok - my advice is to go for it. I have been in situations like this before where you think about it too much. Not always a good idea.

techman
 
Mag2006 said:
My head is about to blow up over the past couple of days, my husband is the same. As the title states, we are FTB's, put a deposit on a brand new 4 bed semi €440k in Wicklow town & due to sign contracts in the coming days and have loan approval.
phew. €1800 a month mortgage, €21600 a year.
I feel that if the housing market was to go belly up we would be one of the first to be destroyed by it, then if it goes the other way we are fine.
you would be trapped if it went down , if it goes up you will not sell because you need somewhere to live anyway
I would really appreciate some genuine advice and opinions as we have also discussed ringing our solicitor to cancel & get the deposit back and get a cheaper house (in Co. Wicklow...where?!?) or just hang on and see what happens. We could be making the biggest mistake or the best descision of our lives here. We have 2 children under 4 to consider aswell and we don't want them to suffer if there WAS a downturn.
and you may have more which could tip ye into cash flow problems.
We have a lovely life, financially very secure, only thing missing was our own home. We could not go for a house until this year as we were waiting on hubbie to be made permanent in his job prior to that he was contracting so unreliable income made it hard to get on the property ladder. I have had the same perm job for 4 years now.
Let me ask you a question. Has the rent risen on ye in the past 5 years (like for like property) if not why not ??
We are just worried about it, we are looking at €1,800 per month repayments over 35 years, which we can manage but what if the interest rates rise, we could be totally finished, or are we just panicking.
well run the figures in here

[broken link removed] and see what happens when the mortgage rate goes to 6% which IS FEASIBLE , and stays there a while.

a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 3.75% is €1800 a month
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 4.50% is €2000 a month
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 5.00% is €2120 a month
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 6.00% is €2400 a month

What would that €600 drop in ready cash do ???? I have stress tested you 2.25% off 3.75% assumed interest rate now.

Your kids deserve a home, whether its worth the 35 year sentence and the stress ....I am unsure as are you. If you cannot face the 6% mortgage scenario there then walk away . Honestly

I was in London in 1988 and remember that pure fear drove that market and people stretched to "get on the ladder" . Do not make a 35 year committment because of fear. Its irrational. Its a bad decision.

What would you think yourself if your REMOVED the fear.

Do that.
 
Can you afford repayments if rates rise by, say, another 2%, or more?

Will fixing your repayments for a number of years ease the strain?
 
Reality is people will always want to live in your area due to close proximity to capital and country. Crash might only dip the prices in your area - but thats just my take on it.
 
nelly said:
Reality is people will always want to live in your area due to close proximity to capital and country. Crash might only dip the prices in your area - but thats just my take on it.

N Wicklow with good transport and schools and stuff would always do better in a purely hypothetical downturn than more peripheral areas like the back of Kilbeggan or east Carlow ....which is where many FTB's find themselves.
 
440k on a repayment mortgage over 35 years = repaying around 800k in todays money , are you prepared to stay in that house in the event of a housing correction? if not i'd rent for 1200 a month and invest the money saved every month in tax efficient pension.you will have the chance to buy in the future for less in real terms(relative to income and inflation),prices cant keep rising as no young person would be able to buy and the bottom rung be gone and bottom will fall out of the market.
 
House values should not come into the equation. Negative equity only becomes a problem when looking to sell. And there is no sign of a crash despite the various scare mongering going on! I would have thought the key question in the post is mortgage affordability. The banks will have stress tested you to a certain point and are obviously happy to lend you the money but only you would know how much rate increases would affect your standard of living for your family. If you want to buy the house and you are not sure how you would cope with rate increases then see can you afford a fixed rate for 5 or 10 years and go with that.

Good luck anyway.
 
jhegarty said:
For the dreaded C***h word.... unless you plan to sell you house it won't matter to you if the prices drop.... I know was told I was mad to buy a house last year becuase of the coming crash , and I know people who go laughed at 5 years ago for spending €200k on a house (worth €370 at last check).... anyone who says that they know when the crash will happen is a fool...


about interest rates rising can you fix the rate... most banks should let you fix for up to 5 years , costs a bit more but gives you peace of mind, and I persume the kids will be out of childcare in 5 years so that will help....

you say you currenlty pay €1200 a month in rent and mortgage is going to be €1800 .... see if you can put €600 a side for the next few months... if it troubles you to do this then you can't afford it... if you can then things look good....
Not true,if property market fell the wider economy would be impacted and unemployment would return etc.its not as simple as asset prices rising and falling.
 
Thank you all so much for replying to my topic, extremely helpful replies. To answer a few questions (coz when I try use the quote thingy it seems to hate me for some reason!?!).

Yes we do want that particular house, it's gorgeus and a house for life as we will never need more than 4 beds (which answers the more kids question...not a hope pal...had 2 10lb babies...done my bit for mankind!!).

We actually have been living less €500 for a while now to see how we would manage and do most of our shopping in Lidl now barr baby things so trying really hard. We also have €300 per month childrens allowence & the new early childcare scheme which is worth €500 per quarter to us will be great. I get a 10% bonus every July so that's coming and hubbie gets his in April so I really believe we can do this and do it well and still live a good standard. Husband is getting more freaked out than I am, suppose the phone call yesterday to say out loan pack was in solicitors now started the panic and then I read the MARKET CRASH thread and emailed it to him and we got scared of the future. We just want a proper family home, I want to do the kids bedrooms up the way they deserve it to be, get things for the garden for them and be at HOME!!!. You know what I mean!.
Our rent has actually gone up €100 this year but we should be in our new house in October so we cannot wait to skip out of the place!!. Age wise I am 30 (happened last week...dreadful experience:eek: ) & hubbie is 32 so we are still on the young family side.

I think we would be crazy to stop now, house prices in the North Wicklow area continue to rise and it's not like we are going to be remortgaging and making egets of ourselves financially. We do know that hubbies car needs replacing in the next 12 months but we will probably use the credit union or get a personal loan off the bank for that, the bank seem to love us at the moment....scares me. They are such licks!!!!!:p

Going to go home and talk to him again this evening and tell him I really want this house and the kids deserve it as well as ourselves and I believe we can do this if we go 3 or 5 years fixed. Still have shaking hands as I type this!!!!!!!!
 
Go for it.
Interest rate rises are a worry -so I'd consider fixing.
Looks like this years budget will be a give-way.
Expect at least 160 Euro per month extra for the two of you
in terms of tax bands etc.

Buying is always a worry for the first time.

To own your own place, make your mark on it etc is far superior to renting.

Good luck.
 
sound to me like you have your head screwed on the correct way round... and have thing in order...

best of luck :D
 
Mag2006 said:
Our rent has actually gone up €100 this year but we should be in our new house in October so we cannot wait to skip out of the place!!. Age wise I am 30 (happened last week...dreadful experience:eek: ) & hubbie is 32 so we are still on the young family side.

Your rent has gone up very little since the years 1999/2000 though, why is that ???
 
bearishbull said:
Not true,if property market fell the wider economy would be impacted and unemployment would return etc.its not as simple as asset prices rising and falling.

But then we might all as well all sell up, go live in a bubble and pray nothing bad ever happens to us....Its a family home and if they can afford to buy, they should...

Oh and happy 30th birthday to the OP...
 
2Pack said:
Your rent has gone up very little since the years 1999/2000 though, why is that ???
didnt you know ireland is a special case where rents dont rise in real terms but property prices race ahead of income growth? tut tut you silly man.
 
I knew it was right to post my thoughts on this site, nice to see there are some genuine people around willing to be honest. You all have really helped me out descision wise....signing this week and happy about the future and having a real home instead of paying rent to a misery guts!!!.
 
Sunny said:
But then we might all as well all sell up, go live in a bubble and pray nothing bad ever happens to us....Its a family home and if they can afford to buy, they should...
if rent was a five hundred euro a month should they still buy at 440k? " if they can afford to buy they should" is the worst financial philosphy i've ever heard.
 
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