A turning point. Trump and Brexit

C

cremeegg

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The old saying that voting changes nothing usually has some truth in it. The 2011 election was seen as the most critical in Ireland for many years, but it would have made little difference to the policies pursued, if FF rather than FG had been the major party.

However this year the UK referendum on EU membership and the US presidential election are different. I really fear that if Britain votes to leave the EU and Trump is elected US president that the world will take a turn for the worse.

That the worlds problems will be addressed in an increasing spirit of confrontation and within a win-lose mindset.

The post war world has shown the benefits of cooperation and a win-win mentality. From the Marshall plan onwards the idea that progress is made with others, not against others, has brought peace and prosperity on an unprecedented scale.

There is a strain in US politics and recently in UK politics that sees progress as besting the other, this holds great danger for the world.

I haven't really cared about politics in many years but I really hope that Britain votes to remain and that the US rejects trump.
 
Looks like remain will get there.

Re the US, Trump winning is unthinkable, I trust it wont happen in the end, might be more comfortable if Hilary let Bernie Sanders at is but why would a politician put the good of their country before personal ambition....
 
I expect Britain to remain.
If not , Britain will be quietly isolated , not good for anyone , but quickly people will see your (benefits of co-operation)
The rest of EU will not collapse but I reckon will tweek things to ensure cohesion.

If Britain remains ; are we going to see more fudge/bloodletting in Tories and an ongoing narky out of Europe rump that will continue with the out of Europe peddling .again not good for anyone.

Mr Trump;
As he gets more (Presidential) , hard questions will be asked of him. He will not survive the heat up to November, he will be outed on his many populist rants .
The American people are not that stupid.
 
Gerry Canning said:
The American people are not that stupid.
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I don't know, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Bush:(

Slightly off topic but do you not feel a tad sorry for the poor Russians. Nobody loves them at all (except possibly The Donald). Dumped themselves out of the Euros before the organisers did it to them, dumped out of the Olympics, sanctions by most countries etc.
 
Duke , you pessimist!!

Didn,t we vote Bertie , Bertie , Enda , Enda, !!

Yup do feel a tad sorry for Russians , given their harsh history, but druggies don,t won friends.Football hooligans irk people , and surely invasions by proxy are so last century.!
 
Reagan was good, Clinton was good, Bush the first was OK, Bush the second was a muttonhead, Obama is a disappointment.
With the Possible exception of Bush the second they were all far better than Bertie or Enda.

I don't feel sorry for the Russians at all. They deserve everything they get and more; Their leader is a loathsome creature, their country is run as a corrupt corporation and the people support it all.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Reagan made public jokes about bombing Russia (at a time when that would not have been smart), Clinton turned the "v" of the Oval Office into an "r". YMMV
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But they did good things while in office; ending the cold war in one case and balancing the books in the other.
 
Brendan, can we lift the swearing ban for 1 day? #brexit

Thought I'd missed the boat on buying sterling last week, relieved now (though Sterling and Euro in somewhat of a tandem tumble Vs US$ so Euro to Sterling not as pronounced)
 
Fair play to the UK, at least now the get to leave the "lunatic asylum" lets hope more will wake up and follow suit...
 
So that vile and odious little man Farrage has got his wish. The United Kingdom is now an oxymoron. Pretty soon the UK will consist of England and Wales. Perhaps if the French close the Channel Tunnel then the "little Englanders" (with a Welsh rump) will truly become the island they want. Good luck with that.
 
Conan said:
So that vile and odious little man Farrage has got his wish. The United Kingdom is now an oxymoron. Pretty soon the UK will consist of England and Wales. Perhaps if the French close the Channel Tunnel then the "little Englanders" (with a Welsh rump) will truly become the island they want. Good luck with that.
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The chance of Scotland leaving the UK is now less likely than ever as if they did leave there would be a hard boarder between them and England. That just ‘aint gonna happen.
 
Purple said:
The chance of Scotland leaving the UK is now less likely than ever as if they did leave there would be a hard boarder between them and England. That just ‘aint gonna happen.
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Dunno, didnt seem to worry them re NI & ROI (and yes I know its not really called ROI but.....), unless they intend quarantining NI and protecting the integrity of...cough.....the Mainland. Watch em fall like dominos, Scotland into EU and out of UK, NI rejoins ROI, an explosive (no pun intended) little pot has been set a-bubbling......
 
"The EU is a elitist, undemocratic, bureaucratic, meddling, organisation with a neo-liberal ideology, which has imposed austerity, and created inequality, in its member states."

Obviously if you believe that you would want to leave.

I think that the older, undereducated, poorer, people in the UK who voted leave are about to discover that the opposite is the truth.

A Johnson, Farage regime, without any restraining influence from the EU, will lower taxes, cut services, and drive greater inequality.

Never before have so many turkeys voted for Christmas. It makes the con-trick US Republicans have pulled getting the socially conservative poor to vote for them over the years pale by comparison.
 
I guffawed as I see Indo with headline of Bertie to return to politics if Ireland to vote on exiting. Fair play to him for offering himself as a poison pill like that, I'd say he's nailed any such rumblings ab initio :D
 
Purple said:
The chance of Scotland leaving the UK is now less likely than ever as if they did leave there would be a hard boarder between them and England. That just ‘aint gonna happen.
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Scotland narrowly failed to leave the union last time around but one of the big issues they had at the time was that they don't like being dictated to by England. Now England votes to leave, Scotland votes to remain but have to leave because they are part of the union - I definitely can see them leaving the union now as a result.
 
Purple said:
The chance of Scotland leaving the UK is now less likely than ever as if they did leave there would be a hard boarder between them and England. That just ‘aint gonna happen.
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Purple, you got in before me. Because Scotland wanted the UK to remain does not at all mean that Scotland wants to be in the EU with or without the rest of the UK. Scotland in the EU on its own makes about as much sense as Yorkshire being in the EU on it own. As for NI this result has no implications for its constitutional status whatever. If the UK voted to join ISIS the majority in the NI would back them and the deal is that NI stays in the UK as long as the majority so desire.

So, ironically, the union is more secure now than before the vote.

Let this all be a lesson on the deep weakness in naïve forms of democracy of which referenda are the naivest. The Brexit vote was driven by ignorant working class fodder of the Murdoch hate machine.
 
Fair points Duke, blueband and Purple, I guess Nicola Sturgeon may want to take stock before she commits herself to the same gamble that Cameron took as her comments to this point have very much suggested that is exactly what she plans to do. Ultimately as with all these things it will come down to what makes most economic sense for Scotland.

BTW Duke, don't for a second think that the good people of Yorkshire would not love the idea of creating their own republic separate from England! :p
 
Duke - Brexit was marginally on the agenda last time (not front & centre I'll grant you), but even then Scotland said it wanted to be in the EU, so had they won and the rest of the UK left EU the Scots had said they wanted to stay. So I dont think them being in the EU on their own necessarily scares them.

However on the downside;
  • Oil price is down and uncertain - so have they got the bobs to pay for it all? (EU help or hinder on this point?)
  • I would assume sterling would have to go if Scotland is EU and UK is not.
In general, why is Scotland in the EU any more ridiculous than Ireland being in the EU?, should Ireland leave so??, Ireland needs to be outward looking as the internal market is so small, same holds for Scotland, I dont think either state would be blocked from trading with England.

If Scotland goes then NI looks like an outlier.
 
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