8bn for the banks

The one good thing to come out of this meltdown (unfortunately there will be a lot more bad things) is that it will break up a lot of the cosy cartels out there among bankers, builders, politicians, social partners etc

Hopefully, it will allow real 'value-add' people to emerge who earn a honest living rather than just been good at forming alliances with other scamsters.
 
callybags said:
They were re-elected to the board every year by those same shareholders
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You've put your finger on something here I suspect. Who are the shareholders in AIB, BoI and IL&P? What proportion of the shares in each of these companies are owned or controlled by AIB Investment Managers and Ark Life/Hibernian, BOI Asset Managers and New Ireland, Irish Life Investment Managers and Irish Life Assurance? One often hears the allegation that the Irish banks operate as a cartel, perhaps what we really have is a set of companies with interlocking business relationships and shareholdings (similar to the idea of the Japanese keiretsu). As the representative body for the main shareholders in the banks The Irish Association of Investment Managers (IAIM) should have been far more active in requiring appropriate corporate governance and prudent business practices. However given that the IAIM is dominated by bank subsidiaries this was never going to happen.
 
Only 2 countries guaranteed unlimited amounts of savers deposits one was Ireland the the other was Portugal, I think. Why was it necessary to guarantee unlimited amounts of savings and not say 250k that would be more reasonable.
 
Eugene Sheehy has said he won't step down. AIB and Bank of Ireland are reportedly saying they cannot scrap bonuses to executives for contractual reasons.
 
Well if that's official, people should talk with their feet. So those that got us into the mess are unwilling to help get us out of the same mess. Wonderful !! Surely there are enough Banks for the Public to deal with, rather than these two.
 
PaddyW said:
Eugene Sheehy has said he won't step down. AIB and Bank of Ireland are reportedly saying they cannot scrap bonuses to executives for contractual reasons.
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would gross neligence void the contract?
would having to be recapitalized void the contract?
carry put the job to a certain level not being reached?
can they be fines back the bonuses?
 
Does anyone know what this recaptialisation by the government might do for the BoI shares?
 
I notice that the prefs are non cumulative. Davy's is forecasting losses at AIB and BoI for 2009 and 2010, so that means there will be no 8% payments in these years and nor will these missed dividends be payable in future.
 
Can anyone answer CSIRLs point? Specifically what would happen if we did let the Banks go got the wall and set up another independent Bank.
There seems also to be a certain element of we would end up like Iceland etc. prevailing. This cannot happen as we are tied into the Euro so therefore our currency is guaranteed.
 
Two other points on the above. Just watchg the news on TV3 and the re-capitalisation has officially been voted through.
Q. is though what happens if Internatioal markets don't believe this will be enough? Possibility it seems is the banks may/will go to the Wall anyway.
Also then if that scenario happens how are our guaranteed deposits going to be paid for. I don't see any more money in the Kitty.
 
The banks are toast. What about all of that dead commercial real estate that has yet to be written off. I suspect their books are still 'mark to make-believe'. If they were marked to market, its Argentina/Iceland time.

Govt guarantee - anyone like to tell me where the money for this would come from if queues started to form outside the Irish banks?
 
All the more amazing these guys have awarded their staff and presumably themselves a pay rise. Talk about fiddling while Rome is burning. Unbelievable.
 
lemur said:
I dont see why the fat cat directors of Irish banks should not be made to hand back their earnings (especially bonuses) for the last 5 yrs or so. They failed in their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders (and everyone else).
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Because those in Irelands Golden Circle don't 'do resignation', don't hand back anything. They are masters at taking. They (and their friends) have peddled a myth for years - that they have to be paid at enormous levels to prevent them being poached by major international banks. As if......I don't (and never did) see headhunters stalking the land trying to tempt our 'fantastic' bankers away; if anything, our top bankers represent at best, a case study in mind-boggling greed and incompetence......
 
DonDub said:
Because those in Irelands Golden Circle don't 'do resignation', don't hand back anything. They are masters at taking. They (and their friends) have peddled a myth for years - that they have to be paid at enormous levels to prevent them being poached by major international banks. As if......I don't (and never did) see headhunters stalking the land trying to tempt our 'fantastic' bankers away; if anything, our top bankers represent at best, a case study in mind-boggling greed and incompetence......
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Yes and even worse ... look at the pay-off Neary just got - at tax payer expense- sickening. The FAS guy too.

Then we get calls for higher taxes by various parties! What a hoot! Paying taxes for these scamsters.
 
Some interesting figures on RTE tonight on the banks commercial property exposure.

Gona need a lot more than $8b boys.... most of that stuff is going to pennies on the dollar. Banks are toast. Its over.
 
Impressed with Lenihan and the way he is handling this crisis. He has been handed one hell of a ****. Unlucky for him.
 
lemur said:
Impressed with Lenihan and the way he is handling this crisis. He has been handed one hell of a ****. Unlucky for him.
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Lemur, sorry but I thought through the tears that I was shedding for Brian Goggins (per his statement that he expects to 'earn' only €1.9million this year) that you were impressed with Brian Lenihan's performance - surely you meant depressed. He and Cowen are consstantly behind the curve - is it unreasonable to expect our 'leaders' to get it right first time. After all, isn't that why they sought election to high office - because they have the 'right stuff'. I mean, what other reason could they possibly have?
 
I agree DonDub. Lenihan is trained in law, not in finance. He is unlucky to be handed this mess, but we need to ask does he have the experience and qualification? No one can question his effort and determination. However, this position at the moment requires someone with excellent banking knowledge, technical accounting expertise, and foresight ability to deal with a crisis that has very little precedence to go by.

Perhaps we should take the American approach and headhunt the private sector to fill these roles instead of relying on politicians to fill these roles. Then again, look at the mess they are in also.....
 
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