20 cigarettes up 50cent.

[RetirementPlan]

I'll ask how do they eliminate that double counting, because I know for a fact their systems aren't aligned and some systems are from the early 90s.

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are aware of dublication and account for it what does that render the data used for input into planning either operationally or strategically, in 2 words redundant and comprised. I mean this is room 101 stuff when planning.
I'll leave it at that as we are way off topic now.

That's my point though. You didn't 'ask how do they.......'. You came out with broad generalised criticism simply because you don't know how they do things. TBH, I've no idea how they do their planning, but it's just a tad unfair to criticise them based on your personal lack of knowledge of their planning processes, rather than based on anything they do or don't do.

Funnily enough, you'll find that they are fairly well aware of the dangers of redundant data, which is why they've been working in the Individual Health Identifier for a few years now.

Page not found - 404 Error page

www.ehealthireland.ie

They're not big eejits sitting over there waiting for the experts on bulletin boards to tell them what to do. They know the problems, and they're working hard to address them, within all the usual limitations of funding and staffing and competing priorities.

Really?
According to the HSE 1 in every 7.65 people in this country is waiting for a first outpatient appointment and in total 1 in every 5.5 people is waiting for an appointment. That's 908,000 people waiting for an appointment. One in every 5.5 people in this country is sick enough to need hospital treatment.

From the link above “Those of us who work in healthcare have proven that even in the most unprecedented of challenges, we can deliver solutions. It is now beyond time for those in leadership positions to do likewise,” said IHCA president Prof Alan Irvine."
He should be laughed out the door. Is he seriously suggesting that the President of the IHCA isn't in a leadership position? Does he think we forgot that they held out for 14 years in their negotiations for a new contract (with god only knows how much suffering and death caused directly by them).

Are you saying those outpatient figures are wrong?

I'm not sure what your beef is with IHCA, but about one in five consultant posts, over 700 posts were vacant this time last year, so probably the same or worse this year. Just in case you think that the consultants got some amazingly sweet deal that has them chomping at the bit to get on board.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

That's my point though. You didn't 'ask how do they.......'. You came out with broad generalised criticism simply because you don't know how they do things. TBH, I've no idea how they do their planning, but it's just a tad unfair to criticise them based on your personal lack of knowledge of their planning processes, rather than based on anything they do or don't do.

Funnily enough, you'll find that they are fairly well aware of the dangers of redundant data, which is why they've been working in the Individual Health Identifier for a few years now.

Page not found - 404 Error page

www.ehealthireland.ie

They're not big eejits sitting over there waiting for the experts on bulletin boards to tell them what to do. They know the problems, and they're working hard to address them, within all the usual limitations of funding and staffing and competing priorities.

Are you saying those outpatient figures are wrong?

I'm not sure what your beef is with IHCA, but about one in five consultant posts, over 700 posts were vacant this time last year, so probably the same or worse this year. Just in case you think that the consultants got some amazingly sweet deal that has them chomping at the bit to get on board.

You seem to have a narrative and ply totally unreliable links, ie produced by the HSE, the same organisation that to a dog on the street , who can add, can see beyond the claptrap.

Health in all its facets in this country simply isn't fit for purpose. I wish it was but its not.

You seemingly have data to hand and I'll pose this rather broad question, indicate or show one year in the last 20 where the HSE has stuck to budget and fulfilled its duty to the citizens of our country.

The health system saved my life, mind you €320k was paid out from HI to cover that, yes they aren't all ejiits either but the proof is there to be seen a budget in the billions almost 20 and yet it is what it is, dominated by people who wouldn't find a job elsewhere. And I'm not talking about the frontline, 40% of budget is frontline and 60% is bad data, and other incurables.

If they were doing the right job and a population of 5m there should be nobody sick, or a least an avenue of getting better would be available, its clearly not and hasn't been for decades

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

You seem to have a narrative and ply totally unreliable links, ie produced by the HSE, the same organisation that to a dog on the street , who can add, can see beyond the claptrap.

Health in all its facets in this country simply isn't fit for purpose. I wish it was but its not.

You seemingly have data to hand and I'll pose this rather broad question, indicate or show one year in the last 20 where the HSE has stuck to budget and fulfilled its duty to the citizens of our country.

The health system saved my life, mind you €320k was paid out from HI to cover that, yes they aren't all ejiits either but the proof is there to be seen a budget in the billions almost 20 and yet it is what it is, dominated by people who wouldn't find a job elsewhere. And I'm not talking about the frontline, 40% of budget is frontline and 60% is bad data, and other incurables.

If they were doing the right job and a population of 5m there should be nobody sick, or a least an avenue of getting better would be available, its clearly not and hasn't been for decades

My view and still off topic

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

[broken link removed]

And this is pre- pandemic.

17% surge in .....outside of predicted figures .......and on and on.

Your narrative is worthless , and I question why you are here, because when a new poster arrives they aren't as well armed as you.

The plot thickens

 

[Cervelo]

I'm going out now for a fag, bought in Spain last week. €8 a packet

Forget the state of the HSE since when are a packet of cigarettes €8, the last time I bought them they were €50 for 200 or €5 a pack
That was in March 2020, was there a price increase or does it depend on where you buy them??

 

[Leper]

Forget the state of the HSE since when are a packet of cigarettes €8, the last time I bought them they were €50 for 200 or €5 a pack
That was in March 2020, was there a price increase or does it depend on where you buy them??

It depends on where you buy them. Airports are usually dearer. But, John Player Blue is the brand most go for so prices will vary, but not by much in the TABAC shops.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

It depends on where you buy them. Airports are usually dearer. But, John Player Blue is the brand most go for so prices will vary, but not by much in the TABAC shops.

Camel blue, good smoke unless you get a gift of the menthol version and its like brushing your teeth.

 

[Cervelo]

I don't smoke cigarettes myself anymore, lost the desire after the smoking ban kicked in and finally stopped when I stopped drinking
The cigarettes I buy are for Mrs C and I really do wonder why she bothers, she smokes Silkcut Silver and I can honestly say I get more satisfaction out of sucking the butt of a pencil than those things

 

[RetirementPlan]

You seem to have a narrative and ply totally unreliable links, ie produced by the HSE, the same organisation that to a dog on the street , who can add, can see beyond the claptrap.

Health in all its facets in this country simply isn't fit for purpose. I wish it was but its not.

You seemingly have data to hand and I'll pose this rather broad question, indicate or show one year in the last 20 where the HSE has stuck to budget and fulfilled its duty to the citizens of our country.

The health system saved my life, mind you €320k was paid out from HI to cover that, yes they aren't all ejiits either but the proof is there to be seen a budget in the billions almost 20 and yet it is what it is, dominated by people who wouldn't find a job elsewhere. And I'm not talking about the frontline, 40% of budget is frontline and 60% is bad data, and other incurables.

If they were doing the right job and a population of 5m there should be nobody sick, or a least an avenue of getting better would be available, its clearly not and hasn't been for decades

'A narrative'? Everyone has a narrative. I've no idea why you reckon that information about the Individual Health Identifier project is 'totally unreliable'. You complain about them not having an identifier, and then you complain when they publish information about the project to implement and identifier. There's a bit of a narrative going on there.

I'm not going to do your research for you, so if you want to check out budgets, you can do your own digging. The problem with health budgets is that people tend not to stick to the budget when they get sick. This frontline/back office split is nonsense. They all have their job to do. The people who run the payroll and run the training courses and buy the sutures are all essential to the service, along with those who actually deliver the service.

The idea that 'there should be nobody sick' isn't exactly realistic, based on experiences all over the world.

 

[Purple]

The people who run the payroll and run the training courses and buy the sutures are all essential to the service, along with those who actually deliver the service.

No argument there. The problem is that due to duplication of process and massive structural inefficiencies there is far too much of that work that 'needs' to be done. The people working in the Public Health system have know about this for generations so projects to fix it are, understandable, not taken seriously by those members of the general public who have taken 10 minutes to think about it.

 

[time to plan]

That's my point though. You didn't 'ask how do they.......'. You came out with broad generalised criticism simply because you don't know how they do things. TBH, I've no idea how they do their planning, but it's just a tad unfair to criticise them based on your personal lack of knowledge of their planning processes, rather than based on anything they do or don't do.

Funnily enough, you'll find that they are fairly well aware of the dangers of redundant data, which is why they've been working in the Individual Health Identifier for a few years now.

Page not found - 404 Error page

www.ehealthireland.ie

They're not big eejits sitting over there waiting for the experts on bulletin boards to tell them what to do. They know the problems, and they're working hard to address them, within all the usual limitations of funding and staffing and competing priorities.

Are you saying those outpatient figures are wrong?

I'm not sure what your beef is with IHCA, but about one in five consultant posts, over 700 posts were vacant this time last year, so probably the same or worse this year. Just in case you think that the consultants got some amazingly sweet deal that has them chomping at the bit to get on board.

Financially, Hospital Consultants do have an amazingly sweet deal, certainly compared to the NHS Consultant contract. I think the problem is that the Irish public health system is an unattractive place to work, regardless of the deal.

 

[Purple]

Financially, Hospital Consultants do have an amazingly sweet deal, certainly compared to the NHS Consultant contract. I think the problem is that the Irish public health system is an unattractive place to work, regardless of the deal.

The irony is that the Consultants resistance to change is aa big part of the reason that it's unattractive.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

No argument there. The problem is that due to duplication of process and massive structural inefficiencies there is far too much of that work that 'needs' to be done. The people working in the Public Health system have know about this for generations so projects to fix it are, understandable, not taken seriously by those members of the general public who have taken 10 minutes to think about it.

Every hospital has accounts departments, purchasing departments and so on, a classic example of the mess is a few years ago the HSE was moaning about the fact that Health Insurance companies weren't paying them for private patients like me, they said it was owed €600m, the health insurance people said we pay once we get the claims, further investigation found that some hospitals were years behind in sending claims.

The Government then mandated the insurance companies pay €300 million in December of that year, call it payment on account and it was a temporary measure, it still going on.
My statements for all my hospital time were years after I left, left in 2009 last bill for all my treatments October 2012.

But all visits to Consultant were paid in the year they happened, as the consultant actually went to the effort of actually sending in the claims.

And let's not mention public hospitals charging more for private patients or charging for 2 nights on a trolley while getting chemotherapy.

 

[Purple]

And let's not mention public hospitals charging more for private patients or charging for 2 nights on a trolley while getting chemotherapy.

My son was in hospital earlier in the year (2 patient number in the one hospital). He was admitted through A&E after an elective procedure was screwed up. They asked for his private insurance details. I told him to refuse to give it and say that he wanted to be treated as a public patient. That practice of conning sick people into giving their insurance details so they can be charged as private patients is deplorable and is nothing short of theft.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

My son was in hospital earlier in the year (2 patient number in the one hospital). He was admitted through A&E after an elective procedure was screwed up. They asked for his private insurance details. I told him to refuse to give it and say that he wanted to be treated as a public patient. That practice of conning sick people into giving their insurance details so they can be charged as private patients is deplorable and is nothing short of theft.

Hope the lad has recovered, even the Health Insurance companies are advising that route and I don't blame them. Policy prices have soared way beyond inflation the younger population subsides older policy holders and it's just allowed to go on.

 

[Purple]

Hope the lad has recovered, even the Health Insurance companies are advising that route and I don't blame them. Policy prices have soared way beyond inflation the younger population subsides older policy holders and it's just allowed to go on.

Thanks, he has. If health insurance was the only place younger people were subsidising the old they'd be well able to afford their policies.

 

[RetirementPlan]

No argument there. The problem is that due to duplication of process and massive structural inefficiencies there is far too much of that work that 'needs' to be done. The people working in the Public Health system have know about this for generations so projects to fix it are, understandable, not taken seriously by those members of the general public who have taken 10 minutes to think about it.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter whether some in the general public decide 'not to take projects seriously' or not. The projects will progress regardless. People can choose to moan endlessly if that's what they want to do, and many of course will. The most likely outcome of the moaning of course, is that the best people involved in the projects with choose to move elsewhere, where they can do their work with less moaning. Be careful what you wish for.

Every hospital has accounts departments, purchasing departments and so on, a classic example of the mess is a few years ago the HSE was moaning about the fact that Health Insurance companies weren't paying them for private patients like me, they said it was owed €600m, the health insurance people said we pay once we get the claims, further investigation found that some hospitals were years behind in sending claims.

The Government then mandated the insurance companies pay €300 million in December of that year, call it payment on account and it was a temporary measure, it still going on.
My statements for all my hospital time were years after I left, left in 2009 last bill for all my treatments October 2012.

But all visits to Consultant were paid in the year they happened, as the consultant actually went to the effort of actually sending in the claims.

And let's not mention public hospitals charging more for private patients or charging for 2 nights on a trolley while getting chemotherapy.

Yes, many hospitals continue to have accounts departments, because the kind of financial reporting to HSE, DOH and engagement with insurance companies is extensive. It's not unusual for any organisation in any business or sector that has a few hundred staff to have an accounts department or finance staff of some description involved.
HSE has centralised lots of the 'big ticket' procurement, though of course some local procurement continues. Medics continue to have responsibility for choosing particular devices, particular equipment, particular consumables - some of which will be covered by central agreements and some of which won't.
There are indeed many problems in our health services, just as there are in every health service around the world. Check out this week's C4 Dispatches episode of you want to see some of the large debates going on over there.

 

[Purple]

Honestly, it doesn't really matter whether some in the general public decide 'not to take projects seriously' or not. The projects will progress regardless. People can choose to moan endlessly if that's what they want to do, and many of course will. The most likely outcome of the moaning of course, is that the best people involved in the projects with choose to move elsewhere, where they can do their work with less moaning. Be careful what you wish for.

Really? That's the best you can come up with?
People don't moan, they just look at a long, expensive and tragic track record of failure are gobsmacking incompetence by those who have consistently failed to implement meaningful reforms which actually improve efficiency and they conclude that this will be no different.
I wish that the 'best people' were good enough to get the job done..

 

[Leper]

Really? That's the best you can come up with?
People don't moan, they just look at a long, expensive and tragic track record of failure are gobsmacking incompetence by those who have consistently failed to implement meaningful reforms which actually improve efficiency and they conclude that this will be no different.
I wish that the 'best people' were good enough to get the job done..

Fair enough! Let's cease paying professionals to assist people shedding the smoking habit. The practice hasn't worked. Whoever wants to smoke, let them smoke within the restrictions that currently operate. Even reduce the price of the box of fags and let the state regain whatever taxes are being lost by smokers purchasing ciggies from abroad. And perhaps we can regain more tax by selling cheaper than the countries selling @ €50.00 for ten pack of twenty.

We've tried everything else, now let's try something different.

 

[Peanuts20]

My son was in hospital earlier in the year (2 patient number in the one hospital). He was admitted through A&E after an elective procedure was screwed up. They asked for his private insurance details. I told him to refuse to give it and say that he wanted to be treated as a public patient. That practice of conning sick people into giving their insurance details so they can be charged as private patients is deplorable and is nothing short of theft.

I was checking in Number 1 child for a day procedure in CUH a couple of years ago, got asked if I had medical insurance and made the mistake of saying yeah, Got sent to the other side of the hospital to fill out some forms. Did we get anything extra for that? No.