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  #1  
Old 28-01-2008, 01:21 PM
Moral Ethos Moral Ethos is offline
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Default Father not on birth cert of child

Just a quick question, If a mother registers a child as father unknown, how long does the father have to get his name on the birth cert. What remedies are available to him? Would he need to go to court?
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  #2  
Old 28-01-2008, 01:32 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Anything useful on CitizensInformation by any chance?

Registering the birth of your baby

Or on www.Treoir.ie?

Birth registration
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  #3  
Old 28-01-2008, 01:36 PM
Moral Ethos Moral Ethos is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Ok all very interesting. But the situations detailed assume co operation between the mother and father. I take it from reading that if there is no operation the courts are required?
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  #4  
Old 28-01-2008, 01:49 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Anything useful here?

Rights of the unmarried father
Change of name
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  #5  
Old 28-01-2008, 03:37 PM
csirl csirl is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
If a mother registers a child as father unknown,
Its actually illegal for the mother to register a child as "father unknown" if she knows who the father is. Birth registration paperwork is legal documentation. You cant be untruthful.
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  #6  
Old 28-01-2008, 04:01 PM
truthseeker truthseeker is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl View Post
Its actually illegal for the mother to register a child as "father unknown" if she knows who the father is. Birth registration paperwork is legal documentation. You cant be untruthful.
how would you ever prove that? All the mother has to say is that she honestly didnt know who it was.

Moral Ethos - if the mother is refusing to allow your friends name on the birth cert then she equally cant chase him for maintenance? This type of situation sometimes resolves because the mother wants some financial support and WILL become co-operative re name on birth cert in order to grease the wheels for the maintenance payments.
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  #7  
Old 28-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Moral Ethos Moral Ethos is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Thanks for the responses.

My friend wishes to acknowledge his child, but the mother is having none of it.
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  #8  
Old 28-01-2008, 04:10 PM
truthseeker truthseeker is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Moral Ethos - a quick google search threw this site up - it discusses a little of the legal situation your friend is in and how to establish paternity:

http://medmediacampaign.com/?id=2496&level=4
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  #9  
Old 28-01-2008, 04:12 PM
ailbhe ailbhe is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl View Post
Its actually illegal for the mother to register a child as "father unknown" if she knows who the father is. Birth registration paperwork is legal documentation. You cant be untruthful.

That is untrue. A mother who isn't married cannot put a fathers name on the birth cert if he is not present or doesn't fill in a form agreeing. I know who my daughters father is but as he did not want to be involved I had to leave the space blank on her birth cert. I don't think they put "father unknown" anymore. They just leave it blank.
Once reistered the birth cert cannot be changed but amendments can be added. So if my daughters father reappeared and consented to going onto her birth cert the space for fathers name would remain blank but we would get an addition onto her current birth cert noting his name as father.
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  #10  
Old 28-01-2008, 04:21 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

The GRO website also has info about registration of births.
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  #11  
Old 28-01-2008, 06:27 PM
csirl csirl is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
That is untrue. A mother who isn't married cannot put a fathers name on the birth cert if he is not present or doesn't fill in a form agreeing. I know who my daughters father is but as he did not want to be involved I had to leave the space blank on her birth cert. I don't think they put "father unknown" anymore. They just leave it blank.
Once reistered the birth cert cannot be changed but amendments can be added. So if my daughters father reappeared and consented to going onto her birth cert the space for fathers name would remain blank but we would get an addition onto her current birth cert noting his name as father.
From GRO Website:

Section 2: The Registration Process and the details which must be recorded in the Register of Births:

Care should be exercised to ensure that the information that is recorded in the Register of Births is accurate and correct based on the facts as at the time of the birth. The information recorded in the Register of Births is outlined below:-

Child's Details
  • The time, date and place of the birth of the child.
  • The gender of the child.
  • The personal public service number (PPSN) of child (this will be allocated at registration).
  • The forename(s) and surname of the child. Please ensure that the surname(s) appearing in the Register of Births is correct (i.e. is the chosen and agreed surname and will be used to identify the child) so as to avoid any later confusion or difficulties.
Mother's Details
  • The forename(s) and surname of the mother which will be the name by which the mother is/was ordinarily known at the time of the birth.
  • The mother's birth surname.
  • All other previously used surnames of the mother (if any) will be included in the Register.
  • The mother's normal occupation, described as accurately as possible (e.g. “Clerical Officer, Department of Health and Children” not Public Servant; “Canteen Supervisor” not “Catering”). This is important for statistical purposes. When a parent is not currently employed outside the home the most recently held previous occupation should be given. “Homemaker” is an acceptable term for a parent working in the family home. The term “unemployed” should not be entered in the Register of Births.
  • The mother's normal address at the time of the birth (even if this has changed in the interim before date of registration).
  • The mother's date of birth.
  • The mother's marital status at the time of the birth. (The terms “bachelor” and “spinster” are no longer in use. A person's marital status is either “never married”, “married”, “widowed”, “divorced” or “separated”.
  • The mother's personal public service number (this can be obtained from the Department of Social and Family Affairs by the mother, if it is not known to her).
  • Birth Surname of mother's mother.
Father's Details
  • The father's forename(s), surname, birth surname, all previous surnames (if any), normal occupation, normal address, date of birth, marital status, PPSN and birth surname of father's mother will be recorded in the Register in a similar manner to the details relating to the mother.
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  #12  
Old 28-01-2008, 06:33 PM
csirl csirl is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

To follow up on the above - this is an interesting legal situation. The GRO states that the fathers details must be included on the certificate. However, the mother cannot register the fathers details without a Declaration from the father.

Anyone know if there is a legal obligation on the father to sign a Declaration assuming that there is no dispute over the parentage of the child?

This is one where it would be worth going back to check the primary legislation.


Asides from the legals, I think that it is morally wrong NOT to have the childs father on the birth cert. Mothers who know should always ask the father to fill out the paperwork and fathers should always be willing to do the paperwork. Remember that it is in the best interests of the child to have these details recorded.
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  #13  
Old 28-01-2008, 06:38 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl View Post
Asides from the legals, I think that it is morally wrong NOT to have the childs father on the birth cert.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion. I don't think it's supported by the law though.
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  #14  
Old 28-01-2008, 06:41 PM
Thirsty Thirsty is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
... mother is refusing to allow your friends name on the birth cert then she equally cant chase him for maintenance
Incorrect, there is no correlation between the two.
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  #15  
Old 28-01-2008, 10:03 PM
Moral Ethos Moral Ethos is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

I found today out that the father unknown trick is often used to claim social welfare.
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  #16  
Old 28-01-2008, 11:03 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moral Ethos View Post
I found today out that the father unknown trick is often used to claim social welfare.
How exactly?
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  #17  
Old 28-01-2008, 11:33 PM
Purple Purple is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

I had an employee who bought a house and then rented it to his partner. She and his two children lived there. She claimed rent allowance and the St. Vincent DePaul furnished the place. He lived with them. I haven’t seen him in a few years so I don’t know if it’s still going on, I don’t know if it was even illegal but that's the standard model.
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  #18  
Old 28-01-2008, 11:37 PM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Rent Allowance is means tested in case that matters here. Since you mention illegality I presume that you suspected that it was a possibility in which case one might ask if you reported your concerns to the relevant authorities and, if not, why not? It's certainly not illegal to take charity from the VdeP even if you are not poor.
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  #19  
Old 29-01-2008, 12:00 AM
Moral Ethos Moral Ethos is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubMan View Post
How exactly?
Claiming lone parents allowance. SW have no one to chase for clawback.
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  #20  
Old 29-01-2008, 12:02 AM
ClubMan ClubMan is offline
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Default Re: Father not on birth cert of child

You mean when the father is actually living with the mother and child? Then it's up to somebody to report it and for SW to detect the fraud. The lack of the father's name on the birth cert is irrelevant.
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