What do the Army do?

Am I missing the point?

  • provide security for cash vans in transit - Why should do the Army do this - this is banks money going from bank a to bank b. - Waste of Public resources.
  • provide bomb disposal service which is quite busy in certain gang infested areas, if the gardai have the slightest question they will call out the bomb squad as well as plenty of hoaxes like at the Israeli embassy etc - I'm sure the Israelis are better at this than us
  • provide security at government building - do they deserve protection?
  • provide security at their own barracks (this is 24 hour continuous shift) - if they were any good they would not need to protect themselves - no-one would attack them
  • provide air transport for various ministers who are too lazy to drive - says it all
  • patrol to prevent illegal fishing (navy but they are all the same) - doing a bad job and the fishing policy has killed the fishing anyway - whats left ain't woth protecting
  • patrol to prevent drug smuggling, they helped catch the boyos in cork with that massive shipment - We have Irish satellites now??? Sub it out to the SAS - no survivors
  • train for the overseas peacekeeping missions - whoopee - we will protect the Iraquis from the Imperialist Yanks!!
The best argument for the army is that it keeps 10,000 off the minister for unemployments figures. Maybe we'll have a recruitment drive!!!!
 
Lex Foutish said:
I proudly served my country as a member of the F.C.A. for many years and it was because of the likes of me that the rest of ye were able to sleep soundly in your beds at night knowing that, if foreign forces tried to invade our fair land, they would be driven back to where they came from by my comrades and I. :D
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Ah, but what if they invaded at lunch ??? Or after 6pm (sneaky feckers, them foreigners:) )

FCA used to be called Fools Carrying Arms when I was growing up :)
 
Provide security for cash vans in transit
So the protection of a private transaction is done by the Defence Forces? I can understand that it’s getting more dangerous to transport money between banks, but do we really need the Army doing that? In other countries it’s down to the company providing the service or the police. I know we have this notion that our police force should not be armed but wake up and smell the coffee it’s 2009!

Provide bomb disposal service
I’m sure the Shin Bet would rather deal with bombs at the Israeli embassy. And as for other bomb disposal, that is clearly a Public Safety issue and needs to be done, especially given that there were more than 100 separate bomb attacks involving crime gangs and dissident paramilitaries in the Dublin region last year. The question however is if trained law enforcement officer would not be better for this, as they not only could dispose but also ensure forensic evidence is secured at the same time.

Provide security at government building
And again that is a law enforcement job or the job of a professional security service but not youngsters with a gun who might cause more harm than good if there is ever a professional attempt to go after our governments buildings.

Provide security at their own barracks (this is 24 hour continuous shift)
What we don’t have does not need protection.

Provide air transport for various ministers
“who are too lazy to drive” is I think the right description. While there are needs to provide ministers with air transport I think this needs scaling down and correct sourcing.

Patrol to prevent illegal fishing (navy but they are all the same)
And again a law enforcement job. However given the state of our fishing industry and the fact that most rules for fishing are EU rules the question arise if this really is the job of the Navy.

Patrol to prevent drug smuggling
And again a law enforcement job. I thought we had a customs service (there was even a TV show about our hero customs services staff protecting us from the illegal cigarettes and alcohol from abroad).

Train for the overseas peacekeeping missions
As long as the world cherry picks their so called peace keeping missions (ignore Darfur, ignore Sri Lanka) I sincerely question if someone actually should participate in these.

So in summary the majority of day to day work is law enforcement and not traditional defence work, it looks to me the government uses the defence forces (because they know that the English are not going to invade us again) as a substitution for a modernization of our Law Enforcement apparatus.

We need to modernize our law enforcement service and bring it into the 21st century, while I have the outmost respect of historical reason to form the Garda Síochána as it currently exists, it is clearly not in a position to deal with the current thread from armed gangs and violent crimes. Sure there has been some limited success recently but overall it’s not able to do what it’s supposed to do.

Let’s face it, there is very little chance that any conventional war will happen in Ireland (seriously who is going to invade us) so we should discuss what the defence forces are doing not for the sake of cutting jobs or saving money alone but to ensure that law enforcement is strengthened.

I’m all for security but honestly I rather have an M16 in my backyard to protect me myself than to hope that some teenager of the army (who does not work on nights or weekends) will protect me.
 
Someone told me that Lieutenant General Dermot Earley gets paid more than his counterpart in the British Armed Forces. Don't know whether that is true or not but I wouldn't be surprised. If true, this is a ridiclulous position.

I would argue that the Defence Forces play an active and integral role in Ireland's defence and law enforcement (whether right or wrong)
- During the 70's, 80's and 90's they played a key role against terrorism.
- The Army Rangers (Our SAS) are a highly trained unit who have served the UN in Chad, Somalia, East Tiimor etc. etc. They have also looked after a number of threats within the state.
- The Air Corps provide DAILY cover to cash in transit. You might not see them but they are up there. (I hope we charge enough for this service)
- Next time the Gardai get the blue flu "who you gonna call??"

I will agree that we do not utilise the Defence Forces enough. Driving ministers around is crazy.

It is my opinion that we should be sending the troops out on the streets and out on to our seas more often to patrol problem areas.
Little thugs might argue with a 17st garda with his hands in his pockets. I can't see them saying too much to a well trained soldier. There was a time when the patrol around Collins Barracks on the Liffey took in a stroll down the quays. This had to be a good thing for the safety of residents in that area.
 
Guys, I agree with a lot has been said about costs and roles etc but at the same time, lets not portray our soldiers as a complete waste of space and money. We have a responsibility under the UN to participate in UN missions and to be fair to the Irish army, they have done some great work over the years. They are not off on a jolly. Over 80 soldiers have been killed since 1960 and I don't think their sacrifice should be belittled. You may not agree with what they do or appreciate it but their families do and they deserve some respect.

I would actually spend more money on the navy considering we are and Island with vast territorial waters to protect from illegal fishing (valuable resource) and from drug smugglers.
 
DublinTexas said:
We need to modernize our law enforcement service and bring it into the 21st century, while I have the outmost respect of historical reason to form the Garda Síochána as it currently exists, it is clearly not in a position to deal with the current thread from armed gangs and violent crimes. Sure there has been some limited success recently but overall it’s not able to do what it’s supposed to do.

Let’s face it, there is very little chance that any conventional war will happen in Ireland (seriously who is going to invade us) so we should discuss what the defence forces are doing not for the sake of cutting jobs or saving money alone but to ensure that law enforcement is strengthened.
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Perhaps something like the Gendarmerie that you will see in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Canada etc. etc. It can come under the remit of the Minister of Defence or a Minister for State. This would allow our soldiers to patrol the streets and also serve as peacekeepers when required.
 
Sunny said:
Over 80 soldiers have been killed since 1960 and I don't think their sacrifice should be belittled. You may not agree with what they do or appreciate it but their families do and they deserve some respect.
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I would never disrespect anyone who has died performing their duties but I don't think it should stop a questioning of the relevence of the army. Many more people have died farming for example but we don't hold up the farmers as heros that should not be criticised?


Why not dramatically change the structure and role of the army and defence forces so ordinary taxpayers get more benefit from their work - I believe the 10,000 generally fit, healthy, well trained young people are an un-tapped resource.
 
QED said:
I would never disrespect anyone who has died performing their duties but I don't think it should stop a questioning of the relevence of the army. Many more people have died farming for example but we don't hold up the farmers as heros that should not be criticised?


Why not dramatically change the structure and role of the army and defence forces so ordinary taxpayers get more benefit from their work - I believe the 10,000 generally fit, healthy, well trained young people are an un-tapped resource.
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Where did I say the relevance of the army shouldn't be questioned? All I am saying is that they deserve more respect than they have gotten on this thread. For example calling them a 'non-entity' as someone did or in your case comparing someone who dies serving their Country in various war zones around the world with a farmer who suffers a tragic accident.

I already said I agree with a lot of what was said about the costs and roles.
 
Lex Foutish said:
And anyway, Smashbox always had a bit of a soft spot for a good looking man in uniform!!!!! ;)

1917-08-Milestones-Norman-Rockwell-cover-Woman-with-Soldier-400-Digimarc.jpg
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THAT is so true. You capture me so well in that pic :D
 
Anyone ever read "Tommy" by Kipling?

"It's Tommy this" and "Tommy that"
And "Chuck him out, the brute"
"But it's Thank you, Mr Atkins
When the guns begin to shoot"
 
Smashbox said:
You always look good Lex, don't mind SLF
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Aw, shucks, Smash. You say the sweetest things. :)

Don't worry. I'll never let him come between us!!!!!!!! ;)

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S.L.F., I bet the people of Dublin went to sleep at night, knowing that they were in safe hands, when you were in the F.C.A.!!! :D

funny_soldier.jpg
 
We had mostly Infantry in Cork. We were slightly better presented than the Dublin Cavalry, by the looks of things! ;)
 
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