Junior /Leaving Cert Marking - 10% extra throught the medium of Irish

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HighFlier

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Not sure is this an appropriate forum but here goes.

In a conversation over the weekend someone told me that extra marks are awarded to students taking state exams through the medium of Irish. ie 10% is added to their score. I was flabbergasted to hear this . If true it surely gives an unfair advantage to students from the Gaelscoils. Does anybody have any info. on this practice as its not the first time i've heard this.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

I think the rule that applies is that you get 10% of the marks that you didn't achieve.

e.g. if you got 80% you missed out on 20% so you get 10% of this which would bring your score up to 82%.

I think it's very fair and a good way to encourage the growth of the language.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

"To encourage students in a bygone age to study Irish, a bonus system was introduced, where students doing their Leaving Cert through Irish gain a percentage bonus which is added on to their overall result in the particular subject.

 Students doing the examination gain a bonus of from three per cent to ten per cent depending on subject.


All subjects get a bonus except Irish, English, Technical Drawing, and Art (other than History and Appreciation of Art).


Take the example of a student studying Honours History who earns 60 per cent which is a C grade. The bonus will increase the marks to 66 per cent, a C+ grade, or a gain of five points in CAO system.


If another student gets 69 per cent C+, the bonus will increase the marks to 75.9 per cent, a B+ grade, or a gain of ten points in CAO system.
Above 75 per cent the bonus decreases linearly, so a student getting a 79 per cent B in History gains only eight per cent of 79 per cent, or 6.3 per cent approximately, resulting in 85 per cent A. That's a gain of ten percentage points.


In fact any student studying a subject which is entitled to a ten per cent bonus will gain at least five points if their marks are between 41 per cent and 90 per cent approximately.
One must remember that most subjects are marked out of 300 marks to 600 marks, so a percentage may be as much as six marks.
Most students take at least seven subjects, which include English and Irish and Maths.


With the right choice of subjects a good average student gains at least 20 points and possibly five points from Maths (bonus five per cent) depending on their score.


Around four per cent of students doing Leaving Certificate are examined through Irish."



Source
[broken link removed]
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

gianni said:
I think it's very fair and a good way to encourage the growth of the language.
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It might also be useful if bonus pts could be given for those who take Science subjects for the LCert to encourage students to pursue science/technology at third-level, given the forecasts about future shortages in these areas and its importance to the Irish economy.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

I think it's very fair and a good way to encourage the growth of the language.
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I completely disagree. My children were educated in their younger years outside Ireland and to even approach the Irish Subject Exam papers is a daunting task. Even if they wanted to do their exam through the medium of Irish they could not do so. Also this would apply to the increasing number of immigrant students who are not studying Irish at all. (They are exempt if they joined the educational system after a certain age).

The children attending gaelscoils (many of which are fee paying) have an inherent advantage in the points race not related to ability.

The word unconstitutional springs to mind. Foster all the citizens equally and all that bumph. I wonder if it has ever been challenged legally?
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

HighFlier said:
I completely disagree. My children were educated in their younger years outside Ireland and to even approach the Irish Subject Exam papers is a daunting task. Even if they wanted to do their exam through the medium of Irish they could not do so. Also this would apply to the increasing number of immigrant students who are not studying Irish at all. (They are exempt if they joined the educational system after a certain age).

The children attending gaelscoils (many of which are fee paying) have an inherent advantage in the points race not related to ability.

The word unconstitutional springs to mind. Foster all the citizens equally and all that bumph. I wonder if it has ever been challenged legally?
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Well, those who are good at Irish would score higher in the Irish exam anyway and get higher points that way.

I don't see any harm in it. It's not a very commonplace thing and the bonus marks could be seen as compensation for the fact that there are very few Irish language materials, textbooks etc. for science subjects, history, geography etc.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

gianni said:
I think it's very fair and a good way to encourage the growth of the language.
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I disagree, I think it is inherently unfair. People have a range of differing natural abilities, someone may be better at maths or music or art, yet these people are not offered an extra advantage over someone who happens to be good at Irish.

Plus where you are born makes a difference - if you were born in a Gaeltacht area you have an automatic advantage.

And most importantly - does this system mean that some people are taking up places in universities that they wouldnt have otherwise have been eligible for by dint of the fact that they received extra points for taking their exams in Irish?

It would seem to me that marking people differently according to whether or not they sat the exams in a different language is completely unfair!! Exams should be marked on how well the person does in that particular subject - thats the only way a fair marking system can work.
 
I have no problem with someone who is good at Irish getting high points in the Irish paper because they can score an A1 . This merely reflects their ability in the subject. However if someone gets passed over for say an engineering course in favour of someone who is inherently less qualified in the relevant subjects because of "free" additional points given to them in technical subjects because they can speak Irish then thats discrimination against the better qualified person and in my view totally unfair.
 
HighFlier said:
I have no problem with someone who is good at Irish getting high points in the Irish paper because they can score an A1 . This merely reflects their ability in the subject. However if someone gets passed over for say an engineering course in favour of someone who is inherently less qualified in the relevant subjects because of "free" additional points given to them in technical subjects because they can speak Irish then thats discrimination against the better qualified person and in my view totally unfair.
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I totally agree. The battle for points is stressful enough without some people being given unfair advantages over others.
 
I also think it's a fair and encouraging reward (to the very small minority) who undertake examinations as Gaeilge.
 
I agree with U2Fan. Let's temper the outrage - we are probably looking at 2-3% of people sitting the state exams.

I have no problem with this small token of reverse bias in order to encourage Irish in schools.
 
U2Fan said:
I also think it's a fair and encouraging reward (to the very small minority) who undertake examinations as Gaeilge.
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Perhaps Im missing something here - but I do not see why someone should be 'rewarded' for taking an examination as Gaeilge?
 
Article 8
1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.


2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.


3. Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.


From our Constitution.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

HighFlier said:
I completely disagree. My children were educated in their younger years outside Ireland and to even approach the Irish Subject Exam papers is a daunting task.
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Perhaps some children have benefitted from learning another language during their formative education years in other countries ? If this was the case would you say that they had an unfair advantage over others if they were to take this language as a Leaving Cert subject ?
 
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@ Highflyer,

have you any experience of students attending Irish speaking schools at all?

From my 14 years of experience of all-irish primary and secondary school, the extra 10% given (10% of mark you didnt get) was well deserved and earned!

We had to speak irish all the time, if caught speaking english would mean an automatic 1 day suspension. The only time we were allowed to speak english during the day was in English class. Thats the rules and we had to live by them i know.

But thats only the half of it. Imagine having to translate books or exam papers from English to Irish to German/french to Irish again to answer a question. Imagine sitting a biology exam and being hit with a word in english that your not 100% sure on, yeah you know what it is in Irish but not exactly sure on the english version. Not easy I can tell you. Thats what we had to do on a daily basis as most books were only available in english, no irish version! And the same at exam time.
 
jrewing said:
I have no problem with this small token of reverse bias in order to encourage Irish in schools.
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Nor I. Fair or not, at least Leaving Cert students awarded bonus marks for answering the exams through Irish are actually doing something to 'earn' their advantage.

What about the allocation of 'reserved' places with lower entry points requirements on certain courses (e.g. primary teacher training) for candidates who reside in a designated Gaeltacht area. Whether or not they sit their exams through Irish?

/ducks and runs away...:p
 
Agree with Dr. Moriarty. The lower entry point to primary teaching for Gaeltacht applicants who may end teaching in non all Irish schools. Gaeltacht applicants are not required to take Gaeilge as one of their main subjects for their B.Ed. degree.
 
The children attending gaelscoils (many of which are fee paying)
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I am not aware of any fee paying gaelscoils. Perhaps there are some, but MOST gaelscoils and gaelcolaistes are not feepaying.
 
Re: Junior /Leaving certificate Marking

gianni said:
Perhaps some children have benefitted from learning another language during their formative education years in other countries ? If this was the case would you say that they had an unfair advantage over others if they were to take this language as a Leaving Cert subject ?
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But only in that particular subject - not an advantage in every subject.
 
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