2,000 offers of social housing turned down last year

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/2000-offers-of-social-housing-turned-down-362579.html

"Figures compiled from 30 of the country’s local authorities show there was 1,990 refusals of an offer of social housing last year, including a number of cases in which an applicant refused an offer at least twice.

the main reasons for refusal, as was the case in most of local authorities, was either the location of the accommodation or a change in preferences regarding where the applicant wanted to live. Another common reason for refusal was that the type of accommodation offered was too small or not suitable."

A local councillor had told me that a person in Ringsend had turned down an offer of social housing in Pearse Street because they did not want to leave their community. I assumed it was just a tall story, but now I wonder.

When my friends bought houses in their late 20s, they bought them wherever they could afford to buy them. They all moved well out of their communities and ended up with long commutes to work. They gradually traded up and moved closer to where they were born as they paid down their mortgages and their earnings rose.
 
Whether it for housing or work, the today's people expect what they want, not what they need.

Three basics necessities in life are shelter, a job, and food on the table. If you cannot afford shelter in your 'wanted' location then you have to move. If you cannot find a job in your chosen calling (even if you had to get a degree or special qualifications) then you will have to (temporally) get a job in a different area of work). Everyone should be able to put food on the table (either from work income or social welfare) and anything above the three basic necessities of life are luxuries.

Many people today want those things above their basic needs when they can't afford them. They want to be on the ladder of shelter and work but are unwilling to start on the bottom rung and work their way up. It is a case of I want, and I am entitled to.
 
For anyone depending on family for childcare while they work, or who don't have a car and depend on public transport, moving out of their 'home' area can make working and life very difficult to impossible.
 
These stories make me sick , if you want to have preference for where you live well then get a good job study hard etc etc , too many people in this country want a free ride. They should be offered a house if they don't take it put them out on the streets.

One applicant refused because they were “on a long holiday in Rome”.

This country makes me sick , so many people just fleece the system.
 
What's the point in investing massive sums of money in 'Ghost Estates' if there is a dearth of employment in these areas? Lumping all of the disadvantaged people in areas with poor social infrastructure and high unemployment will condemn them to even longer term unemployment and chronic social problems.

Fella said:
These stories make me sick , if you want to have preference for where you live well then get a good job study hard etc etc , too many people in this country want a free ride. They should be offered a house if they don't take it put them out on the streets.

One applicant refused because they were “on a long holiday in Rome”.

This country makes me sick , so many people just fleece the system.
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The narrative that the poor are somehow responsible for their own poverity is a dangerous, divisive and factually incorrect narrative that's plagued Ireland since the foundation of our state. The idea that 'studying hard' will cure everything is a facile summation of a complex problem. Imagine how difficult it is for someone living in abject poverity to climb out of poverity relative to someone from a middle class background? Imagine the young child living in a socially disadvantaged area such as Moyross, attending a poorly funded DEIS 2 school as opposed to a child from a warm and secure middle class home attending one of the better schools? The young child's parent(s) from Moyross may themselves struggle with literacy, addiction or some other mental health problems in addition to being constantly short of money. These people will understandably be more concerned with the immediacy of survival as opposed to the nebulous long term benefits of their children's education.The child from the middle class area will have at least one parent to help him / her with their homework every day. If the child has dsylexia for example, the middle class parent will seek out additional help for their child. What chance does a child with dsylexia have in an area such as Moyross? By the time the middle class child becomes an adolescent they may need extra grinds to help them to achieve their target of achieving a place in a 'good' course in university. What chance does the single mother from Moyross have of providing grinds for her child? Even if the child from Moyross overcomes the overwhelming odds and manages to study law for example - who will get the place in a practice? Johnny from Moyross or Johnny from Killiney?

Finally, why should people move away from the only support structure (family) that they may have? Most won't own a car and they will become isolated.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Agreed.

But anyone who is not working should take up housing wherever they are offered it.

There is a housing crisis. And ghost estates outside Dublin should be brought back into use.

Brendan
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In a lot of cases, there may be perfectly valid reasons why people have not taken up a housing offer. Location could be a key one. We all don't live in Dublin with a semi-decent public transport infrastructure and options around buses, Luas and train. I know someone in a country town who turned down a council house as it was 4 miles from the primary school and the only way she could get there would be to walk with a 5 year old. Schooling is a particular key point as in a number of towns (Naas and Carlow spring to mind), new schools have been built outside the town. Another example of bad Irish planning

Likewise there are scum areas in many towns and cities (and a previous poster mentioned Moyross) that any sensible person would be mad to move in there, in particular when it comes to drug issues in certain places.
 
Just had a look at the criteria for social housing for a 2 adult 2 Childen applying you need to earn under net 38,500 that's take home of 740 a week !! Is this a joke like seriously these people are not poor . My problem is the so called poor in Ireland still have the same holidays lifestyle cars etc that the middle class and upper classes have , there are very few people struggling , with medical cards and social housing your better off than middle class who work full time and send kids to Creche. That max income level is an insult to people paying a mortgage I'm a 2 adult 2 child house and can happily live on 740 a week .
 
Hello,

This just makes me mad.

If someone needs assistance and it is offered, then where the house is located is almost never open for debate as I see it.

My understanding of the concept is that we are trying to help house people who cannot house themselves, for an interim period while they get back on their feet, not that we give out "free" houses in preferred locations for life.

Assuming the offer of accomodation is reasonable (and not say, the most remote part of the country etc) and it is refused, then I think the party who has refused the offer should be sent packing. That said, I would also have an independent appeals panel to help ensure that offers are actually "reasonable" when made and subsequently declined.

thedaddyman said:
In a lot of cases, there may be perfectly valid reasons why people have not taken up a housing offer.

...I know someone in a country town who turned down a council house as it was 4 miles from the primary school and the only way she could get there would be to walk with a 5 year old.

....Likewise there are scum areas in many towns and cities (and a previous poster mentioned Moyross) that any sensible person would be mad to move in there, in particular when it comes to drug issues in certain places.
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I think the first point you make should be easily sorted out, possibly bike the kids to school or perhaps arrange a local school bus, or car pooling. If the house was genuinely that remote that none of these options could ever be implemented, but if the house was only circa 4 miles from the school, then it seems to me that there must have been a solution available.

As for the second point, absolutely accept it as valid and until such time as the law cleans up these places, no one should be asked to move into them. That said, pressure should be applied on the appropriate Government Departments to deal with these social issues, they have been let pass by for far too long already.
 
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MrEarl said:
I think the first point you make should be easily sorted out, possibly bike the kids to school.
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If this is in the country, then if it isn't safe to walk to school (and most country roads are not that safe to walk on) then it isn't safe to cycle. Even if it is safe enough, then you have to consider that you are talking about a 5 yo able to cycle safely that distance, accompanied by an adult and any other children who are in the house. While it's technically possible, I can see a lot of potential problems.

MrEarl said:
car pooling.
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Car pooling involves one parent driving one day, and the other parent driving the other day. Not possible without a car.

MrEarl said:
perhaps arrange a local school bus
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This seems to most sensible idea for regular school transport, though it leaves the problem of getting to the school when there's a problem with the child, plus parent/teacher meetings and after school activities.

MrEarl said:
If the house was genuinely that remote that none of these options could ever be implemented, but if the house was only circa 4 miles from the school, then it seems to me that there must have been a solution available.
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4 miles, without public transport or a car, is very remote.
 
Hello,

There are variations of some of the arrangements I suggested above.

For example, while the suggestion of car pooling may only mean the option of people pooling their journeys and rotating who drives each day in your thoughts, another variation might be the person without a car contributing towards fuel bills for the car owner who does the driving for example. Another variation might see the person without the car doing a few odd jobs, a bit of babby sitting perhaps for the car owner, in return for regular lifts to and from school.

Simply put, I believe when there is a will, there is usually a way.... friends, neighbours, members of the same sports or social clubs, church groups etc. can all help out when called upon. Perhaps one of the teachers at the school passes by the house and could help out with a lift each day, but I seriously doubt there is no solution to be found in the majority of cases.
 
MrEarl said:
Simply put, I believe when there is a will, there is usually a way.... friends, neighbours, members of the same sports or social clubs, church groups etc. can all help out when called upon. Perhaps one of the teachers at the school passes by the house and could help out with a lift each day, but I seriously doubt there is no solution to be found in the majority of cases.
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All of these depend on the good will of other people. Some people will always be willing to work with you, but in a rural setting you have a smaller pool of people to ask, and it's entirely possible that they are not willing or able to help out.
 
terrysgirl33 said:
All of these depend on the good will of other people. Some people will always be willing to work with you, but in a rural setting you have a smaller pool of people to ask, and it's entirely possible that they are not willing or able to help out.
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True but in my experience, I have found that rural people and particularly those in smaller communities are more willing to help each other than in larger towns and cities where there are less personal relationships formed etc.
 
There is more on this in today's Indo

Fiasco as up to half of housing offers are rejected
Kelly to review high rate of housing refusals

In Dublin City – where the homeless crisis is most severe – almost one in five families turned down offers of homes.

The refusal figure is as high as 49pc in Cork county, 46pc in Waterford, 42pc in counties Roscommon and Donegal and 40pc in Cork City.

Families turn down offers of homes for a wide variety of reasons, including poor access to facilities such as schools and other important services.

But councils are now telling the Department of the Environment of their frustration over so-called ‘serial refusers’.
 
If the above is true approximately half the people on the housing list are not in direneed maybe they should be removed from the list. 40% refusal rate in Cork city is ridiculous.
 
moneybox said:
If the above is true approximately half the people on the housing list are not in dire need, maybe they should be removed from the list...
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I would tend to agree.

Terrysgirl33 made some valid points above regarding difficulties in more rural locations, but to see significant numbers declining accomodation in the likes of Dublin and Cork city are not easily excused, given the significant infrastructure in both cities (particularly Dublin).
 
I know someone who turned down an offer, due to the shocking state of the house/occupants next door to the offered house. I saw the house and formed the opinion that the offer was made just for the sake of it, so that the council could say "well, we did offer you a house".

I did see another house become available in a part of Walkinstown, it was allocated to someone who can afford to park a large white 2015 SUV in the yard. No mortgage of course means more to splash out on the motor.

Some people are offered 2 bed houses when they want a 3 bed. If they take the 2 bed, its the start of endless waiting again.
 
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