As a matter of interest i see in todays Farm Finance section of Irish Examiner that up to end of 2014 10% of nursing care residents availed of the Loan option to cover their cost with debts totalling 34.9m euroes to be collected from their estates. In view of the cost of nursing home care this would suggest 90% of residents must have substantial funds to meet the cost from their own resources.Are there any figures available to indicate what percentage of Fair Deal clients have opted to avail of the Nursing Home Loan Scheme to pay that part of the cost of their stay in a Nursing Home.
In view of the cost of nursing home care this would suggest 90% of residents must have substantial funds to meet the cost from their own resources.
Thanks Twofor1. I agree that if the house is only valued at 200k euro then there is probably no need for a loan in most cases especially when tax relief is factored in. However with house prices rising and a stricter valuation regime this situation may not continue in the years ahead. ThanaksI don’t think 90% necessarily have substantial funds, many might have modest savings that they opt to use to pay the 7.5% liability on their family home for 3 years, rather than have a charge put on the family home, to be collected after their passing.
I am personally aware of many cases where elderly couples have a family home worth say €200K, and one of the couple needs nursing home care.
7.5% of half the value for 3 years is €22,500, this is within the modest savings bracket of many at that stage of their lives, and would be the preferred option rather than put a charge against the family home.
I also believe not opting for the loan substantially speeds up Fair Deal applications.
should we as my mothers 4 adult children pay for the loan ourselves or should we go for the fair deal loan ?
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Is the 7.5% for 3 years payable up front or yearly ?
Is the 7.5% on the 350k - 130k or on the full 350k ,
What's the interest rate on the fair deal loan ?
Is it like a seniors money loan which compounds up each year ?
thanks.
I don’t know in your case if you will be assesed on €350K or €230K, ring your local NHSS office, I always found them very helpful.
My understanding is the reference to the 3 years is that the family home is only included for 3 years..thereafter if there are other assets then the relative rate will apply.If the dependent has a few children that are paying tax at the top rate then it would be more prudent for them to pay it on their behalf as they get full tax relief. The cost can be split between any amount of children afaik.
My understanding of the scheme is that you will be liable for the first three years yourselves and after that up to 7.5% of the assets can be recovered by the HSE up to a max of three years after death. So you are liable for three years and then they can charge only to a max of three further years regardless of how many years they live for after this. Are you guys saying that after three years of paying themselves the HSE can recover nothing from the assets after death ? Sorry for going slightly off topic but I think this should be cleared up as part of the thread.
Are you guys saying that after three years of paying themselves the HSE can recover nothing from the assets after death ?
Do You Know whether your financial assessment can change at any stage or once you enter into the Fair Deal Agreement is that the agreement you stick with (minus the house liability for three years) for your entire time in the nursing home. For instance what would happen if the wife /husband won the Lotto or inherited money, or had to spend a major amount of money to remedy some major problem in the house etc.Yes,
Your principal residence will only be included in the financial assessment for the first 3 years of your time in care, whether you apply for the loan or not, any other assets will be included in the assessment for your entire stay.
If you don’t apply for the loan you will be paying this part of your assessed contribution as you go along, and there will be no further liability when you pass away.
If you do apply for the loan, the HSE will pay this portion of your contribution for three years, and will recoup a maximum of 22.5% (3 years @ 7.5%) regardless of the length of time you spend in nursing home care, from the sale of your property after you pass away. Should you die after 2 years they will only recoup 15% etc.
You will find all the details in the Financial Assessment and Your Contribution To Care sections Here:
[broken link removed]
Some examples of how it works can be found on pages 12-14 here;
http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AssessmentCapacity_FullGuidance.pdf
Page 1 on the application:
If my circumstances change?
You must advise the HSE within 10 working days if you or your partner’s circumstances change, as your financial support may be affected e.g. if your spouse/partner dies or you or your spouse/partner sell your property. Failure to advise the HSE may result in an overpayment of State support which must be repaid to the HSE. If a person does not notify the HSE of a change in circumstances, he/she is guilty of an offence and is liable for a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,000.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/AppForm.pdf
It does not specifically mention the Lotto or big inheritances, but I would guess either would be notifiable changes and you would be reassessed.
Equally as savings lowered as a result of not opting for the loan, medical expenses, new car etc, I applied to have our contribution reassessed each year and it was never an issue, just sent in current bank statements and a rough explanation, our contribution was then reassessed on the now lower savings and we were then advised of our new lower contribution.
Page 1 on the application:
If my circumstances change?
You must advise the HSE within 10 working days if you or your partner’s circumstances change, as your financial support may be affected e.g. if your spouse/partner dies or you or your spouse/partner sell your property. Failure to advise the HSE may result in an overpayment of State support which must be repaid to the HSE. If a person does not notify the HSE of a change in circumstances, he/she is guilty of an offence and is liable for a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,000.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/AppForm.pdf
It does not specifically mention the Lotto or big inheritances, but I would guess either would be notifiable changes and you would be reassessed.
Equally as savings lowered as a result of not opting for the loan, medical expenses, new car etc, I applied to have our contribution reassessed each year and it was never an issue, just sent in current bank statements and a rough explanation, our contribution was then reassessed on the now lower savings and we were then advised of our new lower contribution.
When you reapplied are you now assessed at 15% rather than the original 10%.
Do they reassess the price of the family home ? If so it could have increased rather dramatically.