Hey smug Enda. I didn't spend spend spend.
- Thread starter Odea
- Start date
Was he sneering or was he truthful I wonder.
Yea, but plenty of people did. I don’t agree with the proposition that our troubles are all down to the greed of householders, it’s more complicated than that, but I do agree that it was a major factor. Perhaps it was the major factor. The banks were throwing money around, the regulator was failing to do his job and the government was doing everything it could to overheat the economy but that wouldn’t have been enough if; the Unions weren’t demanding more and more from the Benchmarking ATM (and getting as much or more than they asked for), businesses weren’t over-borrowing and tens of thousands of people on average incomes didn’t fancy themselves as property speculators.
If a person gives a gun to a small child and that child then shoots someone then the adult who gave the gun to the child is at fault.
If a person gives a gun to another adult and that adult then shoots someone then the adult who used the gun is at fault.
If the average Irish person has the intellect of a child then Enda is wrong.
The quote was "People went mad borrowing...".
So lets analyse this:
It is hardly surprising that the usual suspects (Sinn Fein, People (?) Before Profit, Vinny Browne, Constant Regurgitate, even FF) are up in arms (sic). These professional critics are just that.
So lets analyse this:
- The level of borrowing during the period 2000 to 2007 was mad (or does anyone think is was otherwise?)
- The borrowing was done by people (not cats, dogs etc)
- He did not say that all people went mad, but some clearly did
- Yes others went mad by not controling or regulating the market, but if "people" did not borrow to the extent they did we would not be in the state we are in
It is hardly surprising that the usual suspects (Sinn Fein, People (?) Before Profit, Vinny Browne, Constant Regurgitate, even FF) are up in arms (sic). These professional critics are just that.
+1.
When I see People before Profit (or Slogans before sense as they should be called) and SF/IRA giving out about something it usually means I'll agree with it.
The problems were caused by the failure of government to govern during a decade where democracy was subverted by vested interest groups who carved up the country. The person who holds primary responsibility for that is Bertie Ahern. He sat there with his arms folded and his mouth shut while the construction industry kept their tax breaks and the unions got their massive pay increases, while social partnership emasculated the people in the Department of Finance who should have been steering government policy. The Central bank and the Financial regulator did nothing to stop profligate lending by the banks.
All of the above set the scene for the massive levels of borrowing that the Irish people then indulged in but in the end nobody forced anyone to take out a loan. Adults are responsible for their own actions so if people borrowed too much then they only have themselves to blame. I really don’t see how you can blame the current government for any of the above, that’s like blaming the people steering the lifeboats for sinking the Titanic.
Of course there were multiple causes. It's no harm reminding ourselves that we were the ones paying stupid amounts for houses and taking the money from the banks. It's also no harm pointing out that we still spend more than our incomes. This is a collective truth and is not an individual description of the personal spending habits of each of the 4.6 million people in the country (before any crank gets on their high horse).
It may not be the only reason we are in trouble, but it is one of the major ones. And it is one we do not face up to well enough. And SF & the other socialists are actually demeaning us as a people by implying we are of a bunch of finanancial illiterates of diminished responsibility and shouldn't be made face up to any of our mistakes as we couldn't have been expected to know any better. That's bull. It's time we showed some maturity and humility. Enda is spot on.
It may not be the only reason we are in trouble, but it is one of the major ones. And it is one we do not face up to well enough. And SF & the other socialists are actually demeaning us as a people by implying we are of a bunch of finanancial illiterates of diminished responsibility and shouldn't be made face up to any of our mistakes as we couldn't have been expected to know any better. That's bull. It's time we showed some maturity and humility. Enda is spot on.
The problem is that in his State of the Nation address here @ 58sec he's says it's not the people's fault, then he skips over to Davos and says it is the people's fault. One way or another he's talking through his swiss 
. This is the State of the Nation address I like, I gives me a warm feeling inside .
. This is the State of the Nation address I like, I gives me a warm feeling inside .+1, but isn't this the common cry lately?
It wasn't me that done it, I done nuthin' wrong, Bud.
The absolute lunacy of people who bought houses they couldn't afford, accepted mortgages that they knew were too much, remortgaged to 'release equity' to have a holiday or buy a new car, holidayed on credit etc are the ones Enda is referring to.
How that can be a source of righteous indignation is beyond me.
Blame the govt, the banks and (sigh) the bondholders. That makes us all feel better.
It reminds me of the teacher who was told not to mark the childrens exams in red ink, as if there was too many marks, it would make the poor ickle diddums feel bad.
We, as a society 'should' feel bad. We had a part to play, and a not insignificant one at that. Yes, there is much more to it as Purple mentions. But stop deflecting the blame by saying "well 'I' didin't do anything wrong". Fine, good for you. Stop being so bleedin sensitive though. It's a statement about the people, not 'you' personally.
The State Of The Nation Address was a fop. Everyone knew that, but the precious souls didn't want to hear anything that might insinuate that they were ultimately responsible for their own actions. People wanted a fall-guy, and we had loads, FF, Banks & (sigh) bondholders. T'was them that done it. Ignoring the fact that without people falling over themselves to buy a bigger and better house, or more houses, (which they could not ultimately afford) then the policies of FF and the Banks would have amounted to nowt.
A friend of mine went mad in the boom. We had them over for dinner recently and they're struggling but won't admit it. We started talking about the boom and he was going on and on about how great it was and the things they treated themselves to. Myself and my wife were taken aback...it was almost like because we didn't go mad that we missed out! Of course when we treat ourselves now (and the treats still aren't excessive) it's like "Oh been there done that" (even though they paid 3 times the price).
+1
Good point.
In my opinion, the only thing the Irish people are responsible for is voting in the same bunch of chancers over and over again. For this a very heavy price is being paid.
And while we can't blame Enda for what happened in the past, we can blame him for not doing now what needs to be done. It's the vested interests in Ireland that need to be taken on. Until we do that the Irish people will continue to live under the bootheel.
The tax breaks are gone (the construction industry is gone) but the malign influence of the unions remains, like a cancer eating away at the heart and lungs of the country.
Politicians fell over themselves to take credit for the celtic tiger. Now that it has turned bad they are falling over themselves to get away from taking credit. Hamish puts it best in Breaveheart in a quote I can't use here - but can be found by googling "braveheart Nest of scheming"
Sure teachers took credit for the boom because they’d educated our “highly educated workforce” in our “world-class education system”. They peddled that line of guff in order to justify the massive pay increases they looked for (and got). I haven’t heard them saying that the crash is their fault because they produced a generation of financially illiterate gombeens who didn’t see the blindingly obvious.
It’s human nature to take credit for the good things and blame others for the bad.
Yep, I remember that interview in early 2000's when a teacher union rep thought they should get more money because they created the celtic tiger. It sounded like sour grapes to me as tradesmen where earning more money than teachers at the time.
People were undoubtly let down by government/banks/regulators but at the same time a lot of 'ordinary people' lost the run of themselves and contributed to the mess, even if only in a small way.
T McGibney
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Kenny should have said this a year ago when we was elected. When basics as diverse as the old age pension and the price of a chocolate bar are inflated to the highest levels in Europe, at the same time as the country and most of its population are broke, its long past time for us all to recognise what went wrong.