student nurses... are you kidding me?

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panathon

Guest
It makes my blood boil, many groups have a right to protest about pay cuts, about potential job losses, about bad contracts, about recession effects BUT people who have not even achieved their degree yet protest about not being paid. I don't know any other group that gets paid to achieve a degree - it's called internship (which stretches to after achieving a degree in many careers) or work experience or free unpaid fieldwork to ensure you are capable of the bookwork, and practical work you have studied for.

It dilutes the protests that are important and necessary. Get your qualification and then give out about pay conditions. We all have to do it.
 
Totally agree with your comments. Being paid 80% of the current base rate salary is huge for a person still in college.

We dont have the money anymore to feed all these types of things. Everyone has taken a cut, we all have to feel the pain !
 
alexandra12 said:
Totally agree with your comments. Being paid 80% of the current base rate salary is huge for a person still in college.

We dont have the money anymore to feed all these types of things. Everyone has taken a cut, we all have to feel the pain !
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They are not actually in college during their 4th year but on a mandatory 36 week placement in a hospital.

The protest seems to have had an immediate effect as FG said they will urgently review the position if elected to Government.
 
My understanding too is that they are working and therefore should be paid. This degree is only a relatively new way of becoming a nurse. Prior to this nurses trained on the job and were paid from day 1. I just caught a glimpse of the protest and I thought for very young people in a health profession some of them looked decidedly unhealthy.
 
They are doing hours that otherwise would be done by fully qualified/paid nurses...therefore they should get paid. As one of the students interviewed on the news said...it's what they were promised...that's why the nurses adopted the 4 year degree approach in the first place. they're being shafted if they get no pay.
 
panathon said:
. I don't know any other group that gets paid to achieve a degree - it's called internship (which stretches to after achieving a degree in many careers)
.
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Plenty of people do, for example, when I was in UL studying for a degree, I spent 2 6 month work placements in 2 different companies over the duration of the course and got paid for it as did everyone else in my year. Why should employers get staff for free?, after all, student nurses do many of the tasks that a full time nurse does. Would you expect apprentice electricians or carpenters to work for nothing for a number of years whilst they qualify.?
 
Of course they should get paid but 80% of the base salary is too high. Mpsox, I used to work for a company that hired plenty of UL students and they did real jobs and were paid well for students but were not paid 80% of a normal employees salary. Maybe you were just lucky!
 
The current policy is to reduce the payment to zero after a number of years. Along with the growing enthusiasm from employers for 'internships' and the FAS WPP scheme, this is making sure that many people won't have any hope of earning a living wage until they are over 25 approx. So it is back to Mammy and Daddy to keep funding them. Nice work, FF.
 
Sunny said:
Of course they should get paid but 80% of the base salary is too high. Mpsox, I used to work for a company that hired plenty of UL students and they did real jobs and were paid well for students but were not paid 80% of a normal employees salary. Maybe you were just lucky!
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I've no idea if I got paid 80% of a normal employees salary, all I knew was that I was a student and getting paid for it which was great !! I presume it was less.

I've no arguement that the 80% could be reduced, I don't know the full job difference between a fully qualified nurse and a student, other then that I'd imagine a fully qualified nurse has certainly more responsibility and possibly works under less closer supervision.

Plenty of other examples of students/apprentices getting paid, accountants are one group that spring to mind
 
alaskaonline said:
based on what?

are you saying student nurses don't?
what's a "normal" salary?


let's hope they all have Mammy's & Daddy's who can financially look after them :rolleyes:
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Based on the fact there is a training cost for the hospitals that has to be factored in. Based on the fact that they are not qualifed and despite saying that they do all the work of a qualified person, this is not true as there would always be a qualified person with them and who has to take all the responsibility. Based on the fact that Ireland is almost unique in making any sort of payments in this area to student nurses and we are broke.

Not sure how you can read from my statement that I said student nurses didn't do real jobs. My point was that many employers take on students but give them menial tasks that add nothing to their experience. They are simply there to do the grunt work that normal employees don't want to do. My last employer made sure that students were given proper roles for the time they were with the company and paid them a proper wage (well above minimum but not 80% of the salary of a full time colleague). That's what I meant about real jobs.

A normal salary is just another word for base salary of the permanent employees.

They survive three years of college without getting paid. I don't see difference between the classroom and the workplace. Like I said, they should be paid if they are carrying out proper duties. I don't have a problem with it. I just think it is a very expensive form of training.
 
Mpsox said:
Plenty of other examples of students/apprentices getting paid, accountants are one group that spring to mind
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I agree but accountants normally (and apprentices probably) get nowhere near 80% of salary of qualified colleagues.
 
The worst point is that we are training them for hospitals in the U.K. U.S.A. Canada etc while the H.S.E. spends millions "saving" money by hiring agency nurses
 
When I studied science in the DIT back in the 90's I remember the Med Lab Science course was a 3 year course but the 3rd year was spent in the hospital and they got paid for it. I think it was something like £150 a week at the time which felt like a fortune to the rest of us poor students.

Up until recently only someone with a med lab degree could work as a med lab scientist but they have changed it. They are now allowing graduates from other science backgrounds (microbiolgy, biochemistry etc) to work as med lab scientists but they only earn 80% of the salary in the first year. I presume after 12 months, there is so assessment that they can do the job. This has been in operation for at least 8 years.
Maybe that is where the 80% figure is coming from. A harmonisation of hospital training?
 
Mpsox said:
Plenty of people do, for example, when I was in UL studying for a degree, I spent 2 6 month work placements in 2 different companies over the duration of the course and got paid for it as did everyone else in my year. Why should employers get staff for free?, after all, student nurses do many of the tasks that a full time nurse does. Would you expect apprentice electricians or carpenters to work for nothing for a number of years whilst they qualify.?
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Doctors??? they get paid incredibly well to do their year's internship. Nurses work under relatively similar pressures and workloads. Yet again, Doctors being considered superior to Nursing staff.:rolleyes:
 
I'm not taking sides on this but I would be like to be educated a little on the following points if somebody out there with the relevant information and experience wouldn't mind.

What was wrong with the old system of nurse training? Why was it transferred from the hospitals to the colleges and made a degree?
Who benefitted most from the change? Who made money from the change?

I would be grateful for some insights into these points!
Thanks!
 
Hi there, I am from a Nursing background, and now work in IT. When I was training we worked on the wards full time and had 12 weeks collage a year. I trained under the old system. We were paid a pittance at the time! But that was OK, because we were training.

It is my view, that these pre-qualified should be treated as interns (as we treat our student programmers), while they know the basics, they have not worked on a ward full time and should not be given 80% of an SN's salary!

Over the years I have met Doctors who, to get experience in a field, and to gain contacts in a field worked for free...

In terms of the old system, while it was very good, its primary focus was not on education but practice... That sounds great, however nurses should be upto date with research methods and patient care - so the degree has merit in my opinion. The reality is though, with the new system, the nursing staff now have the education and it is that year working that gives them the practical experience managing a ward on a day to day bases..

P...
 
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