Sale agreed with landlord: rent and negotiation tips?

Treetrunk24

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Hi,

I'm sale agreed with my landlord. Negotiations were fast: I offered, they counter-asked and I met their asking quickly due to not wanting to lose the opportunity. We've had an excellent tenancy and working relationship up to this point.

We've been sale agreed for 3 weeks today and everything is lined up and ready to go from my side but it's a very, very tight squeeze financially. Rent is due next week and I asked if they'd be willing to keep my deposit in lieu of last month's rent but they said no, that they expect me to keep paying rent until completion. I respect their refusal on the deposit, as that request was asking a favour, but am really hoping I can negotiate to pay rent until signing and deposit rather than completion. All my financial cushion has gone into the purchase and I'm desparate to get it over the line as the rent is €550 more than the mortgage and my head is barely above water until the deal is done. The motivation for them to speed things up is not as strong if they're still bleeding me for €1900 a month!

I would appreciate both clarity on what is legal and perspective on what is acheivable. Obviously they're legally entitled to rent until I sign but are they still entitled to it after that?

If they are entitled to it, is there a deal to be made? I'm very wary of rocking the boat but really want to improve my position, mainly because I can barely afford prolonged rent but also because I'm feeling slightly shafted at the moment. Some context is that we negotiated when a neighbouring property, identical to mine, had just gone sale agreed. The landlord's asking price was 2K higher, equivalent to a 5K higher open market price when you consider they don't have to pay an estate agent. Subsequent BER assessment also revealed that although the neighbour is a B3, my property is a C1 due to the very old boiler and it will take an investment of 3K to get the BER up to B3. Essentially I've agreed to 8K more than the sale is worth because I was too nervous to be demanding in this market, feeling that they had all the leverage. I know it seems like a small amount in the grand dance of buying a property but it means a lot to me! I'm also aware that if I weren't the one buying, they'd either be selling with me in situ for a lower price or else waiting until it was vacant and not getting any rent for a few months from then until completion.

What should I do: accept what's on the table and just pray they come to closing quickly or try to negotiate a better position? I would so appreciate some perspective and advice. Thanks.
 
Property transactions take time. There might be delays on your side or on the seller's side.

They charge rent to you until you own the property.

You own the property the day your solicitor closes the sale and pays the seller's solicitor the money.

Until then, you pay the rent.

Brendan
 
Okay, will do. I would be accommodating in their shoes but I appreciate that's a minority viewpoint here: a money forum is probably not the best place for ethics that counter extracting the max from a situation! Thanks for your answer, appreciate the clarity of it.
 
I would appreciate both clarity on what is legal and perspective on what is acheivable. Obviously they're legally entitled to rent until I sign but are they still entitled to it after that?

This was the question you asked. I answered it.

If you want to shop around for another answer, feel free to do so. You might prefer to be told that the landlord is a greedy capitalist and you should withhold the rent, but you would lose the house.
 
You are living there, you pay your rent.

Expecting to live rent free while the conveyancing is underway is like expecting to move into a property before you actually own it.

Hope all goes well with house purchase.
 
What’s the value of the property ??
What ever it is you are still saving the landlord money by not having an estate agent but if it does go on the open market the landlord may get a higher offer so kind of double edged sword.

You could ask but it might be flatly refused,but again you are saving them money
 
The fact that they don't have to pay EA is irrelevant to you. And while the boiler might need to be changed in the future, I would suppose it still works and might work for many years. You don't know how long the neighbour's boiler will work for.
I'm also aware that if I weren't the one buying, they'd either be selling with me in situ for a lower price or else waiting until it was vacant and not getting any rent for a few months from then until completion.
It also means that you would have to move out and find alternative accommodation.

You seem to be worried that the owner could make the process longer than necessary. If I was the owner and left you rent free, I would be worried you would extend the process.
 
If I was the owner and left you rent free, I would be worried you would extend the process.

Very good point. By not giving you a discount, he makes sure that there is no messing on your side.

Lots of buyers pull out. Where would the landlord be then?

Have you had a controlled rent for some years?
 
What should I do: accept what's on the table and just pray they come to closing quickly or try to negotiate a better position? I would so appreciate some perspective and advice.
I think it’s entirely reasonable for you to ask, and equally reasonable for them to refuse. Their financial condition might be as tight as yours!

Anyway good luck and let us know when you close.
 
I'd have a slightly different view from responses above - not sure how long OP has been a tenant but s/he does state relationship has been good to date...

I had a similar situation last year whereby my tenant advised he was leaving (after 5 years very satisfactory relationship) as he was purchasing his own property. He ran in to the situation where his mortgage was drawn down before snag list was finalised - some items had to be attended to but he did run in to the situation that first mortgage repayment came due around the same time that rent became due - he asked if I'd accept the initial deposit he had paid could be taken as his final rent repayment - I felt request was reasonable and agreed to same. All worked out fine. I've since sold the property.
 
The motivation for them to speed things up is not as strong if they're still bleeding me for €1900 a month!
As a landlord you lost me right there. They are not bleeding you, they are providing you with a place to rent, which you agreed to.

And you have no idea of their motivation, there is no basis on which you have come to the conclusion they do not want the sale process to go quickly and smoothly. They might be up to their eyes in debt and want the mortgage paid off asap. Indeed they might be sick of being a landlord, which would not be a surprise given the constant negative media attention and never ending changing of the rules and tax laws on landlords.
 
I'd have a slightly different view from responses above - not sure how long OP has been a tenant but s/he does state relationship has been good to date...

I had a similar situation last year whereby my tenant advised he was leaving (after 5 years very satisfactory relationship) as he was purchasing his own property. He ran in to the situation where his mortgage was drawn down before snag list was finalised - some items had to be attended to but he did run in to the situation that first mortgage repayment came due around the same time that rent became due - he asked if I'd accept the initial deposit he had paid could be taken as his final rent repayment - I felt request was reasonable and agreed to same. All worked out fine. I've since sold the property.
We do not know the personal financial circumstances of the landlord. In your individual case you could afford to take deposit as rent. If it then dragged on for 3 or 4 months with no deposit and no rent would you have the same view. The landlord has to look to his own financial interests, he still has to presumably pay a mortgage, and may not have the money to do so without the rent, which is the case for many landlords, but not you. You haven't considered what would happen if this dragged on.

In a similar situation to yours I would have done the same. Can you imagine if the problem turned out to be pyrite or the place was uninhabitable, you'd have a tenant not able to pay rent because he was paying a mortgage elsewhere.
 
I would appreciate both clarity on what is legal and perspective on what is acheivable. Obviously they're legally entitled to rent until I sign but are they still entitled to it after that?
In the first sentence you ask 2 questions, the legal aspect of which you answer yourself in the second sentence.

For your question : perspective on what is achievable

The answer is only what the landlord/vendor agrees, you have no choice in the matter.

As for your 'still entitled to it after that'. You already know they are, your suggesting by saying that rent is an 'entitlement' instead of it being a legal obligation.

Would you ever come on here and tell us that a bank was not entitled to their mortgage payment because you are struggling financially?

How do you think it would go down with the Landlords bank if he told them he couldn't pay May's mortgage because his tenant didn't want to pay May's rent? Would we then have the question of : Is the bank entitled to the mortgage?
 
, is there a deal to be made? I'm very wary of rocking the boat but really want to improve my position, mainly because I can barely afford prolonged rent but also because I'm feeling slightly shafted at the moment. Some context is that we negotiated when a neighbouring property, identical to mine, had just gone sale agreed. The landlord's asking price was 2K higher, equivalent to a 5K higher open market price when you consider they don't have to pay an estate agent. Subsequent BER assessment also revealed that although the neighbour is a B3, my property is a C1 due to the very old boiler and it will take an investment of 3K to get the BER up to B3. Essentially I've agreed to 8K more than the sale is worth because I was too nervous to be demanding in this market, feeling that they had all the leverage. I know it seems like a small amount in the grand dance of buying a property but it means a lot to me! I'm also aware that if I weren't the one buying, they'd either be selling with me in situ for a lower price or else waiting until it was vacant and not getting any rent for a few months from then until completion.
There is a lot of confusion going on here. You agreed a sale price. You are now trying to find fault with your own price. The estate agent fees are none of your business. Even if 2 houses are identical, a 5K here or there won't make much of a difference. on a property of say 350K.

You have literally no idea of what that house could achieve on the open market and are actually calculating the loss to the property owner because he has a sitting tenant.

You also have no idea what the house next door actually went for? You mention 'asking price'. You could be wildly off. You might actually have a bargain price in comparison.

I've guessed a 300K mortgage over 25 years gives you a repayment of about €1500 a month.

Can't believe you're now focused on the BER and the boiler. Seriously.

Instead of wasting time on all of that, focus on getting the property secured in your name asap. How much are you tight for this month. What is the delay in the sale finalising? What can you do this month to get the money together. Without figures it's hard to give advice. Are you planning on renting out rooms under 'rent a room'?
 
You unfortunately need to keep paying the rent until the deal is closed. There isn't really leeway on that. Besides, the sale could fall through.
 
There is a lot of confusion going on here. You agreed a sale price. You are now trying to find fault with your own price. The estate agent fees are none of your business. Even if 2 houses are identical, a 5K here or there won't make much of a difference. on a property of say 350K.

You have literally no idea of what that house could achieve on the open market and are actually calculating the loss to the property owner because he has a sitting tenant.

You also have no idea what the house next door actually went for? You mention 'asking price'. You could be wildly off. You might actually have a bargain price in comparison.

I've guessed a 300K mortgage over 25 years gives you a repayment of about €1500 a month.

Can't believe you're now focused on the BER and the boiler. Seriously.

Instead of wasting time on all of that, focus on getting the property secured in your name asap. How much are you tight for this month. What is the delay in the sale finalising? What can you do this month to get the money together. Without figures it's hard to give advice. Are you planning on renting out rooms under 'rent a room'?
Oh absolutely. The house behind mine is identical in every way except that it was actually maintained rather than let degrade over 30 years and become mice infested prior to me buying it. But the asking price for it is only marginally higher than mine was - it will be interesting to see if the price it ends up selling for is the difference between the upgraded cost. Its all about how the market is going.
 
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