Zurich pension funds seemed to have fallen more than market

I moved an old pension into a PRB two years ago and invested it in the Aviva Global Equity ESG Passive Fund. So, no contributions since then. It's basically an MSCI World Index tracker with ESG elements. 71% US exposure according to factsheet. Sure, it's down a bit from it's all time high. But it's up 24% since opening. So, not really worried about the current swings as I've well over 10 years to retirement.

Sarenco said:

So, to recap -

1. Zurich’s international fund has not meaningfully lagged its benchmark In recent months as claimed;

2. Zurich’s international fund is not overweight IT or US stocks relative to its benchmark as claimed;

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Thanks for that summary Sarenco. As somebody in the International Fund, (and not having huge expertise), I was starting to wonder if there was something that I should be concerned about.

I also have a fixed account maturing in coming months and I may add to the fund; my horizon is longer term.

@Tuscany

It should go without saying that you shouldn't be relying on random information from random posters on the internet. It's akin to saying 'I read it on FB so it must be true'. We have no idea what the motivations of some posters are.

If there's any doubt in your mind about anything fund/product/provider related, your first point of contact should be the broker/adviser/intermediary/tied-agent that's attached to your contract. Resist the urge to make a phone call, put your query in an email and insist on an email reply. That way there's a permanent record of the exchange and there's great comfort in that.

To improve your experience here, you could press the Ignore button on posters you think might be posting inaccurate or misleading information. In the absence of a Block button, you then have a reminder in a thread that you pressed that button for a reason before and it would serve as a red flag to you. This is particularly useful to those who don't post or visit the site that often.

A bit late to this topic, but i have pension with standard life (vanguard global index) and zurich (Indexed Global Equity) The Zurich pension is down 10% and the the standard life one is down 5% from the hight of the market in February...Same as OP i thought they would be more or less the same.

Petroltimer said:

The Zurich pension is down 10% and the the standard life one is down 5% from the hight of the market in February

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You mean the index funds themselves or your specific investments? If the latter then when were your specific investments made?

Petroltimer said:

standard life (vanguard global index) and zurich (Indexed Global Equity)

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The former aims to track the MSCI World Index. The latter invests in the iShares Developed World Index Fund.
Apples and oranges. Or, at the very least, different types of apples...

Edit: oh, looks like the iShares one also aims to track the MSCI World Index so they may be more comparable than I initially assumed...

The Fund invests so far as possible and practicable in equity securities (e.g. shares) that make up the MSCI World Index, the Fund’s benchmark index.

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iShares Developed World Index Fund tracks the MSCI World Index as well. They're the same apples in different baskets.

Corola said:

iShares Developed World Index Fund tracks the MSCI World Index as well. They're the same apples.

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Yes, I've annotated my post since. But both aim to track the same index - doesn't mean that they always manage to? And it's not clear if @Petroltimer may be comparing investments made at different times which may not be like with like...

They could have small differences, but they wouldn't deviate by -5% vs -10% over the same time period, so no not like-for-like.

I looked at the performance year to date and it's practically identical

Corola said:

They could have small differences, but they wouldn't deviate by -5% vs -10% over the same time period, so no not like-for-like.

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It sounds like one has a monthly premium and the other has an annual premium, or some such.

As has been said above, timing of when you put the money into each is hugely relevant.

There's also the issue of charges. What are the charges on your two plans? If the charges on one are significantly higher than the other, it could account for some of the drag on fund performance.

GSheehy said:

It should go without saying that you shouldn't be relying on random information from random posters on the internet. It's akin to saying 'I read it on FB so it must be true'. We have no idea what the motivations of some posters are.

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Its not random information, don't be so dismissive of valid concerns and questions and trying to shut down a debate. My motivation was that I simply had a relatively large exposure to the international equity fund and other zurich funds in my prsa and was concerned over the large exposure to US tech stocks which were most affected by the sell off and also falling dollar. I have accepted the argument now that it more or less mimics the performance of the msci world index when that is expressed in euros.
Although my point about them changing the classification to "article 8" without proper communication and providing a non "article 8" alternative for fund holders to switch to still stands. I tried to find out what stocks were sold from the fund prior to them changing to "article 8" in 2023 without success.

You are like an industry guy telling people "nothing to see here, move along"

I would be absolutely stunned if Zurich changed a single holding prior to self-declaring the fund to be an Article 8 fund on the introduction of the SFDR.

Trust me - you are looking for something that isn’t there.

joe sod said:

I tried to find out what stocks were sold from the fund prior to them changing to "article 8" in 2023 without success.

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You can see Zurich's exclusion criteria here:

Sarenco said:

I would be absolutely stunned if Zurich changed a single holding prior to self-declaring the fund to be an Article 8 fund on the introduction of the SFDR.

Trust me - you are looking for something that isn’t there.

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thanks for that, yes I accept now that the "article 8" change was very limited and would only have excluded a small area of market, thanks to @Corola has shown that, it doesn't say very much on the fund factsheet and actually leads you to think they have excluded alot more stocks. Also how do you find out what the full portfolio is not just the top10 holdings and what buys and sells the fund has done down through the years?