This is the sort of thinking we need to get away from. Flat rate, across the board, means everyone pays the same portion, but the wealthy pay a lot more because a percentage of their income is going to be a lot more money. The discincentive to work here is getting higher and the incentive to move abroad is getting higher. Frankly our higher rate of tax kicking in a little above 30k is just ludicrous, no matter what financial state we are in. Knowledge economy? Idiot economy more like.As things stand, a flat rate would benefit the higher earner more than the low earner
This is the sort of thinking we need to get away from.
It's the 'we are where we are' sort of thinking that needs to be got away from. If we have a broken system, should we not fix it because some will 'benefit' (ie perhaps have unfairnesses in the system reversed) more than others in the fixing?
The discincentive to work here is getting higher and the incentive to move abroad is getting higher.
It's the 'we are where we are' sort of thinking that needs to be got away from. If we have a broken system, should we not fix it because some will 'benefit' (ie perhaps have unfairnesses in the system reversed) more than others in the fixing?
It's like those 'lucky' people earning between 26K and 30K who actually saw an increase in net pay after the budget - they benefited from the budget while everyone else suffered - was that unfair? Looking at the before and after, it looks unfair - until you realise that there was an anomaly in the system and the 26K to 30K people were previously paying disproportionately too much. By your reasoning, should the 26K to 30K people have been left paying disproportionately higher tax because to fix things would have benefited them vs people earning 15K or 20K?
We need to look at what would be a fair system and work towards getting our system around to that, even if it takes a long time so that no-one is hit too hard too fast.
And let me ask you something, are you better off if we leave things the way they are?Let me ask you something (and you too shnaek), if a flat rate of tax of 20% were brought in would you be better or worse off than you are now?
I agree completely. Lets give it a go! If it doesn't work we can always return to this rubbish state of affairs. Surely it can't be worse?I'm a big fan of the flat rate tax. It's the only way to tax fairly. Having everyone pay different percentages is an absurdity that we've unfortunately got used to. Could you imagine if someone proposed that people on differing incomes paid different VAT rates?
Why should we punish those who are clever? Doesn't have to be either/or. We can achieve both with a bit of thinking.Why should we punish those who have lower paid jobs.
It isn't fine. It is far from fine. It is a total disincentive. 20% and then "higher taxes after that" - how much higher? 1980's higher?The tax system is fine. 20% rate up to a certain point and then higher taxes after that.
It isn't fine. It is far from fine. It is a total disincentive. 20% and then "higher taxes after that" - how much higher? 1980's higher?
It isn't fine. It is far from fine. It is a total disincentive. 20% and then "higher taxes after that" - how much higher? 1980's higher?
Disincentive to who exactly? People at the high end of the wage market?
Do you think that the dole is an attractive option to someone on €80K a year because they don't like paying 50% taxes on their earnings over €35K?
Limiting Condition 2: Minimum cost of living/social welfare
Social welfare and the minimum amount needed to reasonably get by should be the same amount. If you work and earn up to this level you should not be taxed as it completely removes the incentive to work.
I think getting the heck out of here is an attractive option if you're paying taxes over 50% on earnings over €34k. The choice is not just between the dole and work. The choice that tens of thousands of people are making is between staying in Ireland or going. When you look at the future, if you are a smart thinking person, you look to see whether things are going to get better or not. You look at it this way whether you are on the dole or a high earner. If you see that things aren't going to get better, or things are going to get worse, then you look at your options. That is what smart people do.Disincentive to who exactly? People at the high end of the wage market? Do you think that the dole is an attractive option to someone on €80K a year because they don't like paying 50% taxes on their earnings over €35K?
This is a social welfare policy problem rather than a taxation problem. The max rate of non-contrib SW for unemployed should always be lower than the net take home pay (i.e. after taxes/levies etc) of someone on minimum wage. Contributory SW should also be treated differently to non-contrib i.e. be self funding via PRSI and should be paid as a % of previous years taxable income. Our SW problem is that non-contrib and contrib rates are too similar, so no incentive to work and pay PRSI/tax. Also there is a one size fits all approach to contributory SW rather than having benefits proportionate to the money someone has paid into the fund.
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