Why not a forum for investors to group together?

Discussion in 'Financial campaigns and consultations' started by mercman, 23 Sep 2013.

  1. mercman

    mercman Guest

    How about establishing a new thread for Investors to seek out others in a similar situation where Investments have gone pear shaped.

    This would make life somewhat easier where the necessity to place advertisements in Newspapers could be put to the side. It would also assist in allowing a multitude to co-join and share costs in fighting any battle.

    Moreover it would help each other to get ideas as to what went wrong, coupled with allowing many heads to get together for the same purpose.
     
  2. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    I think that's a great idea Mercman. Only one caveat, by their very nature, investments can go up or down. There is no sure thing, so there is not always a way to avoid loses.
     
  3. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    35,989
    Hi mercman

    An interesting idea. I presume you mean a separate forum? Anyone can start a thread on any topic within the guidelines.

    Pros

    • Helps people with a similar issue find each other
    • Would get useful assessment of their claims - whether there are grounds for complaint or not
    • There could be general advice on how to pursue a campaign
    • Motivation - I am amazed that the IBRC mortgage holders have not got going yet, they are missing a great opportunity. But then I set up a separate forum for them and that still has not motivated them.

    Cons

    • Vulnerable to defamation - although this can be managed.
    • Bronte's caveat - could become a dumping ground for people who have no grounds for complaint chancing their arm.
    • If we got a lot of unreasonable campaigns, could damage the reputation of askaboutmoney as a forum for balanced comment - again, this can be managed by someone arguing against the complaint
    • In general, we try to avoid increasing the numbers of forums. There may be a need for this, but is it covered already in the other forums? Will there be cross over between this and other forums - e.g. the Ombudsman forum? Having said that, a general forum like this might replace separate forums such as the ptsb SVR campaign or "What Irish Nationwide borrowers should do now." forum
    Scope


    • Why restrict it to investors - any group action would do - e.g. ptsb SVR holders; IBRC mortgage holders
    • But we would need to restrict it to financial products - e.g. The BCP Quadruple Growth Bond but not the Campaign against the Property Tax
    • What about general campaigns - e.g. "Debt forgiveness Now!" or "Say no to high phone charges!"?
    • While it's easy to be specific about what campaigns would be covered and would not, I have to deal with the abuse from people who accuse me of "censoring" their "Save the Phoenix Park!" campaign.

    Comments/questions

    • In the past we have set up similar issue specific forums - ptsb SVR campaign, the Demutualisation forum;
    • Would Askaboutmoney host the campaign or just provide a list of such campaigns? For example - a link to Lavelle Coleman's case for the ACC investors.
    Suggestions for a name for the forum?

    • Campaigns
    • Group campaigns
    • The Campaign HQ
    • Consumer campaigns
    • Class Actions - a bit too legal
     
  4. mercman

    mercman Guest

    The entire purpose of my idea revolves around a number of issues.

    Firstly there are many persons that have used the suicide route due to the mis management and mis selling of a number of these funds. These people had no where to go, no one to talk to and have run out of resources to take a case.

    In this regard, I am linking my thoughts to property funds, whether they are based in Ireland, the UK, mainland Europe or wherever the asset is located. My gut feeling is that if there was a forum to read and link their case, they could all join forces to set up a group.

    From a Bank scope, they lent money to people who were led to believe that the investment on offer was completely well managed and Kosher. How many of the funds used second rate Management ? How many of the funds placed the Investors into Interest Rate Swaps alluding the Investment Bankers to bonuses as well as Commission from these derivatives, as the promoters thought they were embarking on the correct and best route.

    Many professional people including medical and legal, have been caught in this mess, and in the main are left penniless. This forum could well save embarrassment and help many to collectively take on the might of spoof as well as offering some solace to these unfortunates.

    I do believe the last chapter concerning these practices has not been written as yet. If Brendan is prepared to allow Ask About Money to be a foundation stone for others to destress as well to assist in the fact that Bankers do tell lies and the same people relish in the mishaps of others were they are a primary cause.
     
  5. Jim2007

    Jim2007 Frequent Poster

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    Given how little data there is available on these investments, I fail to see how this could ever be objective! It would just amount to a he said, she said kind of thing.
     
  6. MrEarl

    MrEarl Frequent Poster

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    Hello,

    I think this would be an excellent idea.

    I myself am involved in a couple of property based investments - syndicates which bought properties in the UK, Germany and France.

    Regretfully, the majority of these funds are not regulated and as such, it appears there are few options other than to rally fellow investors and then as a group, to tackle the property managers / investment agents, if we are not happy with the level of service etc. The concept being discussed here could help bring fellow investors togeather, help myself and others learn from each other etc.

    Needless to say, experiences discussed here may also prove a valuable asset for future investors who may wish to do some research about a particular fund or manager, prior to investing.
     
  7. Murrisk

    Murrisk Frequent Poster

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    I think it is a good idea. I was a subscriber to an "asset backed" BES investment which was not honoured and where the value of the asset was compromised. The promoter has refused to give me the names of my fellow investors.
     
  8. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    How can the promoter give you other people's names, that's confidential.

    A few questions about your investment. Did it come with a guaranteed return, if not then how can you now complain? Did you understand what you were buying into? Did you research it?

    Please do not see my questions as attacking you, they are to elicit if you took a risk, and to see if you understood the risk, but were willing to take it anyway.
     
  9. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    Didn't you know this when you invested? Why were you happy to subscribe to something that was unregulated if you now feel that this is a problem?
     
  10. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    Mismanagement and misselling are serious charges. How do you prove that? If people are going to invest their hard earned money should they not have checked out the management credentials beforehand. If they were missold, did they not understand what they were buying. Did people choose to only hear the upside, and ignore the possibility of a downside. Were people gullible or greedy?

    In relation to the second sentence above, about the Banks lending, are you talking about lending to invest? That's a double barrelled whammy then, isn't it. If the fund goes down, you lose that but still owe the bank. Is that a good investment strategy.

    Can first rate managment also have loses? Would first rate management have saved the investments and turned a profit.
     
  11. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Bronte raises some interesting points which we would have to consider for such a forum.

    Is it just for people who have lost money in a risky fund to try to embarrass the fund manager to give them their losses back?

    Would it be up to the moderators to distinguish between the genuine cases and the chancers? I think not.

    Maybe restrict the forum for putting people in touch or advertising campaign groups, irrespective of the merits of the case?
     
  12. Monksfield

    Monksfield Frequent Poster

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    If it served no other purpose than to put fellow investors in touch with each other that would be doing a very useful service.

    I am involved in seeking redress professionally and meet/speak to a cross-section of people in all manner of funds/investments - I am quite sure that by getting in touch with other investors people will:
    a) feel better (the value in terms of the stress involved is not to be understated)
    b) share the cost of professional help
    c) have greater leverage acting as a group to effect change in how the investments are managed/wound up

    Clearly I have a vested interest but I honestly believe it is a good idea.
     
  13. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    I have gathered together campaigns from the last year or so and moved them to this thread.

    If I have missed any, please reply to this thread posting a link and I will move them into this forum.

    Mercman - thanks again for the suggestion.

    Brendan