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Ally2004

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Just wondering if anybody can give some advise on the following situation.

We have been to numerous solicitors and they are seem to be telling us different stories, so if anybody has some past experiences like this one I would be very interested to hear.

My Mam has been living in her house over 23 years, she has paid the mortgage furnished it and collected the keys when it was ready, the only problem is when my mam's house was bought she was not in a position to get a mortgage so her sister took one out in her name but it was my Mam's house to everybody involved as she paid the bills and done everything with it.

Her sister lived with their parents until they passed three years ago and her sister received their property worth 750K mortgage free and the rest of the siblings got invetsments and stuff like that, my mam was left 25K but never received a penny as her brother contested the will as he was not happy he did not get the house in the end he was awarded 200K in the High Court. My Aunties solicitor then informed my mam she would not be getting any of her money as this went towards his fees, we have since learned this solicitor has now been struck off.

Now my aunty is sending my Mam solicitor letters saying she has xyz to get out of the property as she is selling it as it is her home, she has sent numerous letters with just blatant lies on them that she lived there and so on, this is not true and she has never spent one single night in the house.

The house is worth 360K and has a mortgage of 8K o/s, my mam has paid the mortgage since day one and all the bills are in her name. My mam is also sick at the moment and is up the walls as she does not know what is going to happen.

Has anybody any advise on this one?

Many thanks
 
Sorry no expert i just felt sick for your mother when i read the post.
I would have thought that if your mam has records of all payments a judge should look on it sympathetically. Its amazing that if your auntie got that house she would see your mother 25k out of pocket and then take the house from under her as well?
i fear its too late for it but i reckon that both ladies need to meet and talk without solicitors. Your auntie prob deserves the home if she cared for her parents in it but i don't see how she feels its ok to take it out on your mother.
 
I know yeah it is funny what money will do to people, my aunty is refusing to talk about this and when my Mam tried to contact her about it via phone she got a solicitors letter saying that she was harrssing her!!! That is what we thought as my mam has records of receipts going back until the early 90's but becuase my aunties name is on the deeds there are different opinions on the case. My mam never disputed my aunty getting the house she didnt really care who got what as the way she looked at it was she had her own house and didn't want to get caught up in this vicious squabbling that was going on between the other siblings, an abolute nightmare of a situation to be in, thats why I posted just wanted to see if anybody had any fresh views on it, thanks for getting back.
 
If the worst came to the worst and your mother hadn't a legal leg to stand on she might be able to turn your auntie in to the tax man and let on that your auntie "rented" the house to her for all those years. It would mean your mam might not come away empty handed as she could get back tax on the money she paid.
 
Hi Ally2004.

Sorry to hear about your aunt. Terrible situation to be in. I am assuming that your aunt is looking to sell the house to fund the High Court award of €200k to your uncle. If your aunt is successful, hopefully not, would your mother be able to contest that she should have also received €200k?
 
Its also a small thing in the overall scheme of things but I fail to see how one small bequest of 25K should be completely wiped out by solicitors fees I would have thought they should be applied proportionally to each persons share of the estate.
 
There was a mortgage raised on the property worth 750K for 200K to pay the brother off, that is all settled now and he has his money and she and their other brother live in that house, now she is after my mam's house i would say to pay off that mortgage and to have some spare cash. I think that was one of the reasons the solicitor has lately been struck off but as far as I know the bill was for sorting out my grandmothers estate and barrister costs for the High Court as this dragged on for months. Would my mam have any sort of tenants rights or something like that? It just seems unfair that with 8K left on the mortgage that they come after her and my mam after working hard for the last 20 odd years to clear it for them to just come along and take it.
 
Get a solicitor. Now.

This is too serious to be left to well-meaning advice on the internet.

Having said that (!), if your mother really has paid all the mortgage since the time the house was bought, she probably has the beneficial interest in the house, with your aunt only having the legal title to the house. A court would probably state that your mother 'owns' the house, despite what it says on the deeds.

Re the €25k being reduced to nothing, as stated above this shouldn't have happened. In the event of an award being made to your uncle out of the estate in the sum of €200k, this will reduce everyone's bequest proportionally. This means that the only way your mother would get absolutely nothing would be if the estate was entirely disposed of to your uncle, which it wasn't - slightly less than a third was, meaning your mother should still have got in the region of €16,000, being around 2/3 of her initial bequest.

Please take your mother to see a competent solicitor immediately.
 
Thanks for that Sherman, my mam has a solicitor on the case but I have been telling her to get a new one as the only time he does something is after my Aunt does something, I think it would be better if if we done something at this stage as it feels like she is dangling from a string with all this. I will talk to her when I get home again to see if we can change her solicitor.
 
Sherman said:
Get a solicitor. Now.

Having said that (!), if your mother really has paid all the mortgage since the time the house was bought, she probably has the beneficial interest in the house, with your aunt only having the legal title to the house. A court would probably state that your mother 'owns' the house, despite what it says on the deeds.

Re the €25k being reduced to nothing, as stated above this shouldn't have happened. In the event of an award being made to your uncle out of the estate in the sum of €200k, this will reduce everyone's bequest proportionally. .
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This would seem to me to be correct. I feel so sorry for your Mam. I've seen similar skullduggery in my own family albeit not on such a big scale. It saddens me how people get so greedy.
 
It's absoloutely disgusting what your aunt is doing to your mother.Where are you living - if it's Cork i've the name of a very good solicitor. If not, can anyone else guide this person to a good solicitor near wherever she's from.
 
thanks a million for all your replys, we are living in Dublin but if anybody could recommend a good solicitor that would be great as I think the guy we have at the moment is a bit of a cowboy to be honest.
 
Just read this post and although I can't really offer any advice, I just wanted to sympatise with Ally over the situation, This post will be deleted if not edited immediately - does the word FAMILY not mean anything anymore? I really hope you get a good solicitor and get this all sorted and that your aunt gets nothing more than what she deserves. And I'm not even going to say what I think that is.
 
Ally2004 said:
thanks a million for all your replys, we are living in Dublin but if anybody could recommend a good solicitor that would be great as I think the guy we have at the moment is a bit of a cowboy to be honest.
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PM'ed you re solicitor recommendation.
 
jhegarty said:
Would adverse possession apply ?..... anyone ?
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I'm not sure it could. If by paying the mortgage she has effectively being paying rent to the aunt then adverse possession would not apply. However I think Shermans point that she may have a beneficial interest in the house might be a better bet.
 
I agree with Sherman,

I can't be sure without knowing all the facts, but I think a court would decide that your aunt held the legal title to the property on trust for your mother if that was the understanding at the time and your mother paid the mortgage repayments since then. Your mother would have a beneficial interest to the value of the repayments she has made. Your aunt would have to bring legal proceedings to evict your mother if she wants to sell the house. Your mother could then ask the court to transfer the property and mortgage to her instead. It sounds to me like she has a good case, provided she can prove the repayments, which is the most important thing.

In relation to the bequest of €25k or less, your mother can sue the estate for this and let them prove that she was not entitled to it. The Executors have a legal obligation to pay her what she was owed. As the Estate solicitor was struck off, I think any new solicitor the Executor gets would be reluctant to defend that one as they would have to show the court the estate accounts and show how the payment to the uncle was arranged. It should be pretty clear from those whether it was done properly or not.

I hope your mother isn't too worried about the solicitors letters, that is just your aunt claiming whatever she wants to, it doesn't mean she has a decent case to back it up. You have my sympathies, it sounds like a horrible situation to be in.
 
mallow said:
I agree with Sherman,

I can't be sure without knowing all the facts, but I think a court would decide that your aunt held the legal title to the property on trust for your mother if that was the understanding at the time and your mother paid the mortgage repayments since then.
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Facts that would probably be relevant to this might include:

1) Who provided the deposit as this was obviously in the days before 100% mortgages, your mother or the aunt?
2) Was your mother paying the exact amount of the mortgage repayments (and was she paying this directly against the mortgage or through an account of the aunts)?
3) Who was responsible for the maintenance and repair of the house over the years? Did your mother make any upgrades of a substantial nature that would not be common for a tenant?
4) Were there any written agreements that explicity outlined that the intention was your mother was to be the beneficial owner (though I'd say probably not if the aunt is trying to assert her ownership so is there any written communications that might implicity outline your mothers ownership)?
5) In the absence of written understandings what verbal understandings were there and can anyone corroborate them (preferably a disinterested party)?
6) Who paid to insure the property and what was in the policy documents?
 
Hi there thanks for all the replys, have spoken to my Mam last night and she is going to make an appointment to see another solicitor, so hopefully they may be a bit better than the one she has now, and dam099 in answer to questions.

1. My Grandfather gave my mam the deposit of the property as she was only after going thorugh a seperation and she was awarded custody of us.
2. My Mam paid the mortgage from day 1 at the start my Grandmother used to pay half and my Mam would pay half then my mam paid the full amount it wasn't through a bank account it was payment through an office in O'Connell Street and you would then be given a receipt.
3. My mam decorated and furnished the whole place upgraded kitchen, bathroom and landscaped back garden.
4. Nothing in place at all, when my Grandmother died she died believing that my Mam had her own house, my mam's brother had his aprtment and the other two siblings (aunty and uncle 2) would stay living in her home but because it was left to my aunt my uncle didn't like that and contested the will, he was then awarded 200K and land at the side of the house which he subsequently built on.
5. Not really nobody really knew the house was in my aunts name bar the family and some cousins, but our old next door neighbour who has since moved but we stay in touch with has said they will do anything they can to help as they also moved in the same day as us when the property was brand new 23 years ago.
6. My mam pays the household insurance on the property and am not too sure about the mortgage protection to be honest don't know if there is any.

Once again thank you for all your replys and least when we do go to see the solicitor we have some idea of what to ask him.
 
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