When is a transaction not a transaction?

[coolaboola]

... When it's an ancillary service of course!

Ok, ok, I know there's a bit of repitition here from the NIB discussions but now that I'm in the market for a new bank where I can avail of free (really free - including paying bills, etc.) banking I want to be able to compare accounts easily without having to drill down into the minutiae of the T&C's for each account package.

I want to know what free transactions actually means. I'd assumed (until now!) that paying a utility bill through my on-line bank account was a fairly typical transaction. Not according to NIB who class paying a bill as an ancillary service and charge €0.23 for the service (€0.50 in branch). Am I to assume that other banks do not include bill payments as a transaction and thus may incurr fees? Does each bank define 'transaction' differently?

 

[RainyDay]

Hi Coolaboola - Is your NIB account a Freebank account? Did you confirm with the NIB branch that the fee shown on screen will actually be applied?

 

[coolaboola]

Hi RD,

Yep, my account is a FreeBank account (which has always been in credit) and I've confirmed twice with my NIB branch that the fee will be applied. They called it 'bank commission'. Hence me leaving NIB.

 

[RainyDay]

I think NIB are on dodgy ground here. There is no mention of any 0.23 fee in their current [broken link removed]. The list of 'ancillary services' in that document are all quite different to the 3rd party payment transaction - they are not transaction related fees. The booklet explicitly states 'no transaction charges' for Freebank accounts. When they sent out documentation on the changeover some months back, I called in and explicitly asked if there was any change in relation to charging of fees to Freebank customers and they confirmed there was no change.

I'm guessing this fee is an unexpected feature of the new banking platform rather than an intended change. They are trying to pass it off on customers now.

I'm in the mood for a little battle on this one. I think I'll pull together something in writing to send to my account manager. I might happen to mention their nemesis (Charlie Bird) when I call to follow up.

I know that the ODCA no longer have any role in regulating bank charges. Do IFSRA have any role in this? Do changes in fees need to be notified to the regulator?

 

[jwd]

My recent experience of NIB staff knowledge of the new product portfolio is that they are poorly versed which, combined with a tendency to ad-lib answers, is causing much confusion. I saw a comment in one of the NIB threads that these charges would be credited back later. At present, I wouldn't make any assumptions of correctness of any answers you may be given.

Jim

 

[intermission]

Do IFSRA have any role in this? Do changes in fees need to be notified to the regulator?

If a bank wants to make a change to the customer proposition which has a negative effect for the customer (For example, introducing new fees or amending the fee structure in some other way which is bad for the customer) then I believe IFSRA approval is indeed required.

 

[damson]

I think NIB are on dodgy ground here. There is no mention of any 0.23 fee in their current [broken link removed]. The list of 'ancillary services' in that document are all quite different to the 3rd party payment transaction - they are not transaction related fees. The booklet explicitly states 'no transaction charges' for Freebank accounts. When they sent out documentation on the changeover some months back, I called in and explicitly asked if there was any change in relation to charging of fees to Freebank customers and they confirmed there was no change.

I'm guessing this fee is an unexpected feature of the new banking platform rather than an intended change. They are trying to pass it off on customers now.

I wouldn't be as confident as RainyDay - I think they do mean to charge the 'ancillary service fee' to Freebank customers. If you look at the list of ancillary charges in the [broken link removed] they indicate by a superscript that one of them (the plastic card fee) is waived for Freebank customers. By implication, the other ones aren't. And bill payment is specifically mentioned as one of the things attracting an ancillary charge, although the figures in their brochure don't correspond with those that currently seem to apply in practice, as I posted in the other thread:

Charging for paying utility bills online from a 'free' account is absolutely ridiculous. Their [broken link removed] describes this lunacy as an ancillary charge:

Quote:
What are ancillary charges? These are charges incurred outside normal transactional items on all accounts and are applied at the time the service is provided. Such charges would include for example buying a foreign draft or paying a bill.

Paying a bill is hardly an abnormal transaction! Interestingly, the listings in their brochure for ancillary charges don't match the 23c posters above have noticed on their accounts:

Quote:
Third Party Giro /Bill Payment -
..............processed at branch €0.75
Third Party Giro (no mention of bill payment) -
..............processed via self service channel €0.50

Would it be worthwhile to merge the 2 threads?