What is the obsession with protecting Ulster Bank jobs?

Brendan Burgess said:
But if those jobs are no longer required? Why should branches be kept open?

The world changes. Businesses change. By your reasoning, we would still have horse drawn carriages instead of cars out of sympathy to the carriage men.

Those most affected will be mortgage holders and other customers and they should be prioritised.

The employees who have worked their all their lives will get generous redundancy and generous pensions.

Brendan
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Why shouldn’t UB just auction off the mortgages to whichever fund will squeeze those who can’t switch the most? That’s business after all, and you can’t argue with the free market! What’s the obsession with UB mortgage customers?

But I’m being facetious of course. It’s great to be passionate about protecting consumers. But there’s really no need to be annoyed about those who are passionate about protecting workers, in my opinion. It doesn’t need to be an either / or.

And I really have to disagree that a mortgage customer is more affected than a worker. If a worker can just find another job, then a mortgage customer can just switch. And if you can see why it will be hard for some customers to switch, I’m sure you can also see that it will be hard for some workers to find another job
 
So a trade union official goes on the radio and says protecting jobs has to be the priority. Shock and horror. This leads to dramatic claims that there is an obsession with saving jobs. There is never an obsession with saving jobs when there is no need anymore and we see that in numerous examples in recent years. Banks have shred thousands of jobs since the crisis. That doesn't mean that if there is a way to protect some jobs by selling viable parts of the business then that should be the priority. This has always been the way and there is even legislation in place. Comparisons to horse drawn carriages are just ridiculous.

We then have people commenting that branch staff have no transferable skills like they are simpletons. When I said that this was offensive, my post was deleted and was told that my post was stupid and offensive. And Brendan is perfectly entitled to say as much and delete it.

But I find this entire thread offensive to staff involved. Talk about lack of transferable skills, generous pensions and redundancy payments. The only people who know what the impact is on individuals are the staff involved. Talk about the closure of ulster bank and the impact on consumers but threads like this do nothing for AAM. It is just a baseless rant.
 
Neither the Ulster Bank employees nor customers will benefit from the bank exiting the country but the latter will have it a lot easier.
For the most part the existing UB customers will have to do nothing. Their mortgages and accounts will be taken over by another bank with the same interest rates, terms and conditions. Sit back and relax, someone else is doing the work. Done and dusted, nothing to see here.
Entirely different story for the employees. Yes, they’ll have the safety net of a redundancy payout, but they won’t be getting served up a new job. There will be no seamless transfer where they are guaranteed to retain their current salaries and T’s&C’s. They’ll have to pound the pavements and put the effort in. Many bank branch staff are “frontline workers” and have not experienced the current WFH revolution. Most of those 2,800 staff will be forced from a pre-Covid work environment to a post-Covid work environment through job losses, double the upheaval people experienced during Lockdown 1.
I’m not saying my heart bleeds for them. Given the choice I’d prefer to be a UB customer than a UB employee.
 
We would all hope if not expect that Nat West will behave honourably in regard to both staff and customers, but sadly this cannot be taken for granted. Arguing whether staff or mortgage customers should be a higher priority for the Government makes little sense. Staff are protected by a large body of employment legislation that has been considerably strengthened over the last 50 years. It often works out well, but sometimes it doesn’t (e.g. Debenhams or Clerys). Likewise, customers (and in particular consumers) of financial institutions are protected by a large body of consumer protection legislation enacted over the last 40 years, and again this works well but not always (e.g. tracker mortgages). It is entirely appropriate that various representative and advocacy bodies such as the Unions and the Fair Mortgage Rates Campaign are vocal in respect of their sectional interests, while the Government (including its operational and regulatory arms) must take an overarching view and be alert to the rights and needs of all parties and must be prepared to act in whatever it proves necessary.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
There are plenty of jobs and yes, some of them will have to retrain.
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Whatever about anything else you're saying - which is undoubtedly true notwithstanding the Thatcherite undertone and delivery - I'm not so sure this is the case. None of us know what the long term impact of COVID will be on the jobs market but I'd hazard a guess that it won't be positive, and it certainly won't be positive for the UB lifers living outside of places like Cork & Dublin in the long run. They may get some mileage out of their "generous" packages but for some of them it'll be a long and uncertain road to retirement. Also, I don't think there's an "obsession" with protecting Ulster Bank jobs specifically, I just think that most people have empathy for others losing their jobs.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Many of the Ulster Bank staff are going to do very well out of this.

There will be a generous voluntary redundancy programme. They will avail of this and move on to new and often better jobs.

Brendan
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Firstly the true number of jobs at risk here is likely to be around 4-5000, not the 2800 quoted previously. This is because all of the banks' 3rd party suppliers will also have to cut back. These range from cleaners and security to IT and service firms. ISS for example have a major property support contract that will no longer be needed. Tasks like Cash in Transit, cheque clearing, IT support, ATM maintenance are all outsourced to 3rd party providers these days by all of the banks and all of those providers will cut back as a result. . Even the union will loose at least €250k a year in membership revenue and will have to cut back as a result.

The majority of staff in UB these days (especially in branches) are not massively well paid. Key roles were long sent overseas and a lot of staff would be on less then €30k per year. Based on Bank of Irelands previous package (as an example), someone with 10 years service on a 30k salary would walk away with €35k before any tax. Hardly a life changing sum for people who will probably never work in the industry again.
 
Well said Peanuts. Unless you are wearing their shoes, speculation re generous redundancy packages smacks of jealousy. The lack of empathy is shocking.
Of course if the reverse was true, same individuals would be first to vent on the airwaves.
A clerk in UB desk isn't a 'well paid' position. Perhaps in 1980.
 
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fidelcastro said:
A clerk in UB desk isn't a 'well paid' position. Perhaps in 1980.
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I remember back in “Ireland of the 80ies” being “in the bank” was one of the most respected middle-class professions there was.
Then someone would emigrate to the USA to discover that the same position stateside did not pay well.
A rung above minimum wage. If you did well in WalMart you might progress to Bank of America.

A couple of decades later and banking profession here has followed the American example.
 
I hopped on a double-decker yesterday for Cork's city centre to pay my first visit to my bank in over ten years and also conduct my first cash lodgement in that period. Perhaps the bookies being shut contributed to the lodgement? I was the only customer on the bus and found a ten spot under the seat. My luck is in and I felt better as a result of the find.

Anyway, I digress. I arrived at the bank and the teller informed me I could lodge the money in the "atm" round the internal corner. Not having a clue about the "new" technology available I went to the machine and it was extremely easy to use; a trained seal could do it! But, a member of staff approached anyway and asked if he could help. My transaction was almost completed and we got talking. I suggested the obvious i.e. he was literally talking himself out of a job. He agreed, but stated the bank would find another position for him. "I don't think so" says I, but I wished him well and suggested he stay on first name terms with his union rep.

His answer gobsmacked me. "I don't believe in joining a union" says he. "Suit yourself" says I "but, if I were you, I'd be joining asap." Perhaps the title of this thread is correct and I'm living in some favourable time capsule?

As I left the bank a guy in a tea-cosy hat similar to Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and looking pretty dishevelled asked me for a few pence for a cup of tea. I gave him the aforementioned tenner and his face lit up like he had just received his 2nd dose of the Covid vaccine. I must get out more often, but Mrs Lep's Zoom meeting with the girls has just started and she needs me to somebody fix somebody's sound on a laptop 140 miles away.
 
Leper said:
I hopped on a double-decker yesterday for Cork's city centre to pay my first visit to my bank in over ten years and also conduct my first cash lodgement in that period. Perhaps the bookies being shut contributed to the lodgement? I was the only customer on the bus and found a ten spot under the seat. My luck is in and I felt better as a result of the find.

Anyway, I digress. I arrived at the bank and the teller informed me I could lodge the money in the "atm" round the internal corner. Not having a clue about the "new" technology available I went to the machine and it was extremely easy to use; a trained seal could do it! But, a member of staff approached anyway and asked if he could help. My transaction was almost completed and we got talking. I suggested the obvious i.e. he was literally talking himself out of a job. He agreed, but stated the bank would find another position for him. "I don't think so" says I, but I wished him well and suggested he stay on first name terms with his union rep.

His answer gobsmacked me. "I don't believe in joining a union" says he. "Suit yourself" says I "but, if I were you, I'd be joining asap." Perhaps the title of this thread is correct and I'm living in some favourable time capsule?

As I left the bank a guy in a tea-cosy hat similar to Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and looking pretty dishevelled asked me for a few pence for a cup of tea. I gave him the aforementioned tenner and his face lit up like he had just received his 2nd dose of the Covid vaccine. I must get out more often, but Mrs Lep's Zoom meeting with the girls has just started and she needs me to somebody fix somebody's sound on a laptop 140 miles away.
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@Leper - I'm intrigued. A genuine question - why did you think about joining a union to protect a job that is being automated? Why not suggest he update his skills to ensure he is employable and valuable to an employer?
 
PGF2016 said:
@Leper - I'm intrigued. A genuine question - why did you think about joining a union to protect a job that is being automated? Why not suggest he update his skills to ensure he is employable and valuable to an employer?
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Apologies for the delay in replying. Mrs Lep's Zoom Meeting with the girls ran over by only three hours. The guy was well dressed (suit and tie etc) and sounded like somebody who didn't need advice (he's used to giving advice). I reckon he was doing a part-time 3rd Level Course not on financial subjects anyway just for the entitlement to bring it up during an interview for promotion. Also, I reckon if he lost in his bank shares portfolio, he wouldn't complain either. This guy is the business. He probably thinks he was a bit young to seek constant companionship too. I should point out he sounded extremely helpful and I wish him only the best of luck in his future job outside of the banking sector.
 
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