What can be done to bring down the cost of building homes?

sharkattack said:
My local school recently completed a small one classroom extension cost approx 180K. The professional fees from the Architect were 38K including vat for design and supervision and then people wonder how building is so expensive. Imagine how much professional fees would be on a housing estate when one room cost 38K.
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Why can't schools use off the peg plans like they used to back in the sixties and seventies, these are the still the bedrock of our school buildings nearly 50 years later and are a lot better than some of the expensive bespoke architect stuff we build now
 
If a local authority has land available to build 100 houses on it today. How long is the process before the first brick is laid?

I remember seeing a comment in article that it can take something like 2 years to go through a procurement process to select the developer? If thats true, the measures being put in place by the current government won't be seen for 2+ years?

I watched Claire Byrne last night, and I was slightly disappointed that the cost of building houses did not feature more prominently. I understand all the frustrations, but I felt the debate didn't really reach a conclusion.
 
Dublinbay12 said:
I remember seeing a comment in article that it can take something like 2 years to go through a procurement process to select the developer? If thats true, the measures being put in place by the current government won't be seen for 2+ years?
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Yeah, 2+ years for public development, but private development can move a lot faster so that likely makes that route more appealing to a political party whose primary focus is the next election.
 
Leo said:
Yeah, 2+ years for public development, but private development can move a lot faster so that likely makes that route more appealing to a political party whose primary focus is the next election.
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SO basically we need private sector interests to deliver housing because the State Sector is grossly inefficient. That shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.
 
Purple said:
SO basically we need private sector interests to deliver housing because the State Sector is grossly inefficient. That shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.
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Exactly, and the whole children's hospital debacle is an ongoing reminder of just how expensive state run projects can become.
 
Leo said:
Exactly, and the whole children's hospital debacle is an ongoing reminder of just how expensive state run projects can become.
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Yep, this is about the ineptitude of the people involved in Public Procurement more than vulture funds and all the other headline grabbing emotive buzzwords. If the State was competent it could deliver public services cheaper and better but the citizens of this country are being let down in the provision of housing as well as health and so many other facets of the State sector.
 
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Purple said:
That won't reduce the sell price, just the cost price. It's not a normal open market so reductions in cost won't translate to reductions in price.
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Not straight away but in time - trust me its a normal market.....if the government gets out of the way.......short term YES the cost cuts go to the developers.......then they get competed away......if gross margins for home building here spiked to say 30% (vs. 15-20%) you watch how quickly smart/hungry people will divert their energy and capital into the sector. This is what we want.
Purple said:
Bad idea; we've enough urban sprawl as it is. If we can't to grow outside the citied then have development plans for our towns.
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Lets see what happens post-pandemic - but people have voted with their feet for the last 50 years........ urbanisation is what people want......civil servants can have all the ideas they want around what people SHOULD want.....but the reality is people will decide.......but yes everything should be done to at least enable those who want to stay in rural towns to do that
Purple said:
With all the public service type work practices, pensions and inefficiencies? I'd rather see the State just get better at procurement.
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No - as I said it needs to remains a separate entity, aligned with private sector norms......just with a not for profit bent
Purple said:
We don't produce the raw materials here. Attempting to on-shore our supply chain would add massively to our costs and serve no purpose as the suppliers have their suppliers and those will be outside Ireland anyway. We're not going to produce glass and PVC and the polymers for insulation and wiring and rubber and steel for nails and screws and hinges and latches for doors and windows and polymers for paint and varnish and all the other niche products that go into houses.
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yes of course - sorry I wasnt suggesting some de Valera type insular strategy - just where it makes sense in terms of building up capability to supply ourselves at cost parity with RoW.....or where we should have a slight competitive advantage.....lumber for example......not rubber stoppers :) we'll leave that to Vietnam :)
 
Purple said:
Yep, this is about the ineptitude of the people involved in Public Procurement more than vulture funds and all the other headline grabbing emotive buzzwords. If the State was competent it could deliver public services cheaper and better but the citizens of this country are being let down in the provision of housing as well as health and so many other facets of the State sector.
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I think it takes two to tango.

Its a public sector that is solely focused on avoiding accountability and a private sector only too happy to take advantage of it.
 
We have a storage of housing and no one willing to make compromise on any part in order to fix that.

So if anyone make any suggestions its eventually gets shot down by .... but standards...

Which is hypocritical, as we don't enforce those standards anyway. Its tokenism.
 
Has the cap in pension values led to an increased investment in property?
Has it driven highly paid people who have maxed out their pension contributions but want more income upon retirement into becoming landlords?
 
There is an article in the IT today regarding cost pressures due to rise of costs in materials. The quote below indicates that if builders absorb the costs and cut their profit margins then they won't be able to get financing. So clearly they are arguing it isn't as simple as reducing profit margins.


"Where the increased costs, ranging from €12,000 to €15,000 on top of the purchase price of €325,000 to €350,000 on new homes, are not added to the price of the home, profit margins would be halved, preventing builders from qualifying for financing to fund further houses or projects."

www.irishtimes.com

Higher cost of building materials could ‘lock out’ more home-buyers

Builders warn increased pandemic-related costs must be passed on to buyers
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
Why do you think there was an influx of foreign property investment funds?
 
jpd said:
Why do you think there was an influx of foreign property investment funds?
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Because there's no return on bonds. That's driving an influx of capital into property in the developed world, which is why the problem of working people being priced out of the market is nowhere near unique to Ireland.
 
AlbacoreA said:
We have a storage of housing and no one willing to make compromise on any part in order to fix that.

So if anyone make any suggestions its eventually gets shot down by .... but standards...

Which is hypocritical, as we don't enforce those standards anyway. Its tokenism.
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We have a shortage of housing and many of apartments are poor quality.
No one wants to live in a shoebox with dodgy fire standards, no storage and no sound proofing.
But on one is demanding for example dual aspect apartments yet this is what Dublin councils want.
At the same time driving up housing prices while outbidding FTBs for secondhand starter homes.
And outbidding tenants with HAP payments, while Dublin city council backed away from being a landlord because they couldn't handle the maintenance overhead and chasing down unpaid rents.
Madness.

Local government in Ireland is not fit for purpose.
 
Purple said:
My son is renting what a tiny apartment in Dublin for €1275 a month. It's pre 63 and under 400 square feet. He loves it.
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There's a place for them too, if it's pre 63 it's probably well built with proper walls not 1980s paper thin ones.
He appreciates the privacy \ value of one's own place than renting say a dual aspect two bedroom with a stranger, and would not be alone in that.
Probably he has quite a few things still in storage for when needed in the family home.

Similarly, I also think it was a "let them eat cake" moment to ban bedsits without a guaranteed supply of superior accomodation to replace them. instead we have homeless hubs which are worse than bedsits.

But at the next stage in life, where you have a couple with kids on the way... most Irish apartments don't have enough storage or sound proofing for kids playing.
Say in Riga or Copenhagen you have apartment complexes with assigned storage, bike sheds, proper sound proofing.
There'll be a courtyard setup with a green area for residents, that kind of thing.

We need to be building safe but cheaper (than houses) apartments that are better than our current stock and don't have fantasy planning requirements like dual aspect; and ones that are family friendly.
 
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