We will all be ruined says Hanrahan.

I feel like a right MUTT. I have taken expert advice in my investment life and right now I am seriously underwater.

1. Took out an equity based investment plan (monthly contributions) in 1987 to help with college fees starting in 2006. Right now I am 30% under my contribution levels to date.

2. Joined the rest of the sheep in the EIRCOM saga .

3. Took out equity SSIA (EBS) in Feb 2002 also under water.

4. Have half starved myself in trying to max my pension AVCs since 1989. Currently contributing 20% of salary.

Now thats all after expert ADVICE.

Im only sorry I didnt put on the horses.



Moved from "Savings & Investments" forum

after expert ADVICE

It sounds terrible but you should count your lucky stars you haven't been able to claim on your life policy!

Hubert

Re: after expert ADVICE

Hi Hanrahan - Sorry for your trouble, as they say.

Have you checked out what fees you are paying on the investment fund for your educational fees? If these fees are no longer competitive, you might throwing good money after bad.

And what experts advised you on the Eircom purchase and the EBS SSIA purchase?

now on i'm sticking with credit union

i know how you feel i'm in same boat and guess alot other people..i wish i went to the pub more often and drank my money!

Got stung too

Feeling mutual here worked hard putting the money away then took some advice which basically told me I was missing out on the easy money.

Deliberately did not even go with any risky shares but just wanted to keep it a little over inflation.
Now I'm stuck with all these crappy shares like a lot of other people.

Ahh well just going to blow the rest on whatever coz this worrying ain't for me

Getting Stung !!!???????????

Hanrahan/Beansontoast/Mrpotatoehead,


Do any of you feel, in some way, responsible for your own actions?

I assume that you all agreed with the advice that was offered at the time of each transaction?

pay for advice

Mr Broke

If people pay for advice and get bad advice you suggest that they are somehow responsible?????????

and

if they weren't willing to take the advice what did they go to advisors for?????????

and

Of course people should be responsible for their own actions. They were there when the advice was given. They paid for it, AGREED with it and now, because of selective memory in relation to the time frames and risks involved it's time to blame the advisor.

It's a bit like blaming your GP because the condom burst after you received family planning advice.

and

The lesson is Dont' bother going to advisors because they have an out if things go wrong. They blame the poor sucker for taking their advice. If I may continue with your analogy............ Most people have an alternative when the condom bursts - they can take the morning after pill. No such cure all pill in the advice sector exits it appears. Take the advice but don't blame us if the bubble bursts!

Having an OUT

If the bubble bursts pour your grief out to the fund manager. See how far you get.

If the adviser did not have an out before they have umpteen of them now.

These new regulations will have the client so tied up in paper that they will not know what they are signing. As far as I can see, things like terms of business, fact finds and reasons why letters are for the protection of the adviser.

There is no come back now for the client if things take a turn for the worst. The clients signature is now all over the place stating that she understood exactly what was going on when she signed up.

Who put this crap in The Great Financial Debates ?

Re: Having an OUT

I do not think that either of you are going to come any closer on your opinions here. While I sympathise with anyone who looses money through no fault of their own ie through deception, I would find it difficult to agree with fee that reductions in the values of investments can be blamed on the adviser.

My understanding of the sales process is that, after a comprehensive interview between both parties there is an agreed action that is to take place. This action will be dependent on all the factors (time,attitude to risk,other investments etc) that were discussed during the interview.

If the investor or saver wishes to question the logic or reasoning behind the advice then they can do so at any time up to signing the contracts and I think they can opt out up to two weeks after signing.

In the current investment climate you are not going to find too many investors scrambling to congratulate their stockbroker or investment adviser. In fact, there are very few instances, I would say, where any adviser gets a 'Thank You' card :lol

re: thank you card

:lol
Fortunately, I still have a sense of humour despite all!

Advice

If this thread is serious ... then we need to draw a distinction between bad advice (about a client should justifiably feel aggrieved) and bad outcomes from good advice (about which they should not).

Advice to purchase an SSIA, for example, was good advice, provided you can afford it. It gives you access to a valuable tax incentive not otherwise available. Advice to select an equity SSIA may have been good advice, even though so far it has had a bad outcome, if the adviser explained the risks/rewards of equities relative to deposits properly to you, and allowed you to choose the vehicle you felt was most appropriate. If the adviser didn't explain these, then it may have been bad advice.

Virtually every form of advice, financial or otherwise, involves tradeoffs and choices, and those are made by the customer, not the adviser. So Mr Broke is right - having sought advice does not abrogate the customer from the responsibility of actually making the decision themselves, and owning the consequences of it, provided they have not been badly advised.

Re: Advice

Did anyone else ever notice that, in sport, people only complain about the referee when they lose, and never when they win?

lidl beans

i'm not blaming advisors..i'm blaming companies that hyped up the prices of their stocks with false accounting,the selling of eircom to the general public that owned it anyway at an inflated price,the selling to vodaphone at bargain basement price when things got too hot...jumping out frying pan into the fire.
Rip off fees(legal robbery) for pension funds and avc's....although the pension scene getting better with prsas and competitive internet brokers.
Joe soap ends up getting ripped off while joe big guy can write off his losses against tax.
Also stocker brokers saying shares a buy and they knowing the company is fast going down the drain.
I'm just joe soap...how can i win by trying to keep my head above inflation..when the playing surface is uneven?

> Took out an equity based investment plan (monthly
> contributions) in 1987 to help with college fees
> starting in 2006. Right now I am 30% under my
> contribution levels to date.


You've been investing in equities since 1987, how can you be doing badly? Was your adviser independant
or was it the "Financial Adviser" at your local bank?

The FTSE 100 has doubled since 1988 at one point
it had almost quadrupled but that doesnt matter, there's
no reason you should be down on your contributions if
investing since 1987.

Name and Shame the Fund/Institution that's
looking after your money.

On the Eircom issue, I still can't understand why people
are upset. I have yet to meet a single person who
looked into the company in any meaningful way before
handing over their money. I've yet to meet anyone who
could tell me what they realistically expected to earn
from the investment.

Did an actual independant financial adviser tell you that
eircom was a good bet. If so, I'd be concerned.
I didn't think they suggested individual shares.
He might have said shares are a good bet over the long haul, and that would have been true.

Your SSIA is only a year old. An investment in equities
should only be judged over at least 5 years, which
you're presumably committed to anyway. If you
were that concerned about risk why didn't you
pick the deposit option?

It sounds like you want the returns but none of the risk.

That aint gonna happen, as any decent "Independant"
adviser will tell you.

Find out what's going on with the 1987 investment,
that ain't right.

-Rd

We will all be ruined says Hanrahan

I think everyone was caught with trousers down by the collapse in equity markets. Most people who claim to have sold out at tyhe top of the market deliberately are either bluffing or Warren Buffet(ing), geddit?

I have studied the available websites on investing, particularly Motley Fool etc, and have fallen for all the hype about equities being the strongest performer over time. That may be true but things have changed. Can any of us afford to wait to reap the benefits of the upswing?

I have been lucky overall, viz;
-My endowment policy was with profits and I sold it at a handsome profit a couple of years ago
-I benefitted from free shares in demutualisation of Norwich Union, First active and borrowed heavily for Eircom and NU. Profitted from each, not through my brilliance but by lucky selling
-I dithered over SSIA options until I had no choice but to take fixed 4% option at my bank, ho hum!
-My mortgage LTV is about 35% thanks to rising house values(Bummer, I fixed, at wife's urging and against my instinct into a 5.99% deal which thankfully will expire next month)
-I borrow from Credit Union for our family cars
-I will get more free money from First active soon

My greatest good fortune is that I have never had enough money to invest in the ways I thought would be most profitable, e.g. I would have put a lot into Elan, Eircom etc. I realise that my good fortune has been the result of lack of knowledge, conviction and resources. From now on I intend to pay off expensive personal debt, accelerate mortgage payments, max out the SSIAs and enjoy a good sleep at night.

Investment advisers are commission driven and have to put a spin on the markets to persuade people to invest in new products. Most of these products are heavily slewed in favour of the institutions. You might more productively put a 10€ yankee on on Saturdays. One day your bet may come up. Most trackers will not.

I sympathise with previous posters but share daltonr's disbelief at Hanrahan's return since 1987. There but for the grace of God go I!

Slim - (lucky not smug!)

Re: We will all be ruined says Hanrahan

Interesting post. Maybe I'll post details of my own personal investment experiences but only after the AAM viewing watershed. :eek

Investment advisers are commission driven and have to put a spin on the markets to persuade people to invest in new products. Most of these products are heavily slewed in favour of the institutions. You might more productively put a 10€ yankee on on Saturdays. One day your bet may come up. Most trackers will not

That's not totally true or fair - some advisors are fee based rather than being remunerated through commissions or other "kick-backs" and have no conflict of interest in selecting products appropriate for the customer's requirements. Some products are convoluted (e.g. the latest slew of tracker only or combined split deposit/tracker bonds) and arcanely technical but others do exactly what they say in the tin even if the onus still falls on the consumer to read the associated terms & conditions/documentation and understand what they're getting into.

Disclaimer - I am not involved in the financial industry in any capacity.

Re: We will all be ruined says Hanrahan

All Authorised investment advisors (AA's) are regulated and supervised by the [broken link removed] Under law, they must subscribe to codes of practice which are designed to protect the consumer's interests. [broken link removed] provides what seems to be a definitive list of the compliance obligations of AA's in relation to investment business.