URGENT: Help needed on package holiday

It is worth noting the following "All information contained in the Organiser's brochure or web-site has been checked for accuracy and is correct at the time of going to press or publication"

It is most likely that the information was not correct at the time of going to press unless the Hotel subsequently decided not to open the kids club until after the date of your holiday.

z
 
I know this is anti-help but it brings back painful memories of my experience with Panorama in Tunisia. Awful, awful company. Best of luck.
 
Biggerry
Clubman's advice is good.
With all disputes try and take reasonable approach.
As everyone else has said document everything.
Your problem is really in 2 parts. The first being, dealing with the Panorama Rep. and secondly dealing with Toolin Travel.
Travel holidays problems slightly differ from physical articles that are purchased, you must deal with the seller (Toolin) and the 'manufacturer' (Panorama). Give the Panorama Rep a reasonable chance to rectify the problem. So far they have scored zero offering you a 3 star. To me this is good enough to say that you have given them reasonable chance to rectify the problem. You may also infer that they are admitting liability by offering different accomodation. A question I would ask of Toolin would be to see if Panorama told them that the Kiddies Club would be open.
Before we paid for the holiday we confirmed with the travel operator (Toolin Travel in Rathfarnham) that the kiddies club would be happening when we were there and that there was no extra cost for this. They confirmed that this was the case
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I assume that this was given verbally.

we booked the holiday package with Toolin Travel, so should we direct our complaint to Toolin Travel or should we follow up with Panorama per the instructions on the back of the Customer Service Form?
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You should do both. All documentation and possibly a separate report from the Rep is sent back. Possibly to Panorama and the travel agent. But in the end it will be the travel agent that forks out the money.
When you get home put your complaint in writing to Toolin Travel. Give the basic highlights package in the letter. They will use the information sent back by the rep and decide whether your complaint is valid. To me your complaint is valid.
As for how much to claim, to me there are 3 routes to go.
  1. Give them all the receipts for all the entertainment you had to provided to you Kids while on holidays and any other secondary expenses. Credit Card bill maybe a good idea.
  2. Work out a figure, again reasonable of what you think you should get back. If the 3 kids were of Kiddies Club age. I would start at the figure it cost for the 3 kids for the holiday and gradually move do down to an agreed level.
  3. Leave the ball in their court and see what they offer.
If their offer was decent I would take it and save the headache.
Best of Luck
 
Just to follow up on my earlier assertion that the ITAA arbitration scheme may bind participants to confidentiality/non-disclosure I thought that this was the case (in particular in relation to our aforementioned Concorde incident) but I have been unable to verify this. I think that I saw the possibility of non-disclosure mentioned somewhere but it doesn't seem to be on the ITAA website or the Concorde booking contract/form. Apologies for any confusion caused.
 
Thanks for the advice Tall Chappy.

I'm just starting on the letter to Toolin now. I'll update this post with the outcome.
 
I just want to update you on how this is progressing. I submitted my complaint to Toolin Travel (Rathfarnham Office) on June 9. I got them to sign a letter to confirm that they received my complaint and I got them to put the company stamp on the letter too.


After 4 weeks (Thursday July 7) I heard nothing, so I called up Toolin Travel to see what was happening. I was told that they're "very busy" and that they'd get back on to us. I wasn't happy with this reply, so I mailed the ITAA. Toolin called us the next day (July 8th), to say that we should have a reply by the end of the following week (July 15th).

I heard nothing by July 15th (surprise surprise!), so I called the Rathfarnham office again Friday (July 22nd). They said that the person who deals with customer complaints is just back from 2 week's holiday, and is "catching up on things". I asked for this person's name (Cara) and number and was given this. I called Cara but was told by the receptionist that she wouldn't be in until after 11. I asked the receptionist for an e-mail address for the MD of Toolin and was given this.

A few minutes later Cara called and explained that there was a new EU directive published a few months ago which dealt with flight delays, and this is what was taking up most of her time. She also explained that with this new directive, tour operators have up to 8 weeks to deal with complaints.

So that's where I am at the moment. By Aug 4th, I should have a response to my complaint. I'll post an update when I get this.
 
The legislation which is mentioned is regulation [broken link removed]

It is a short 7 page pdf document. We should all familiarise ouselves with it.

Marion
 
So your saying that Aerlingus or anyother EU carrier must pay compo whereas Delta or any non EU carrier can ignore these rules?
 
August 4th has come and gone and no reply from Toolin Travel (surprise surprise). I called them on Friday and asked to speak to Cara, but she's on holiday's until Monday :rolleyes:
 
I received an e-mail from Toolin Travel today. Here's what it says

Dear Mr. BIGGERRY,

Further to previous correspondence with regard to difficulties which you experienced whilst recently in Portugal.

Regretfully as yet I have been unable to obtain a response from Panorama Holidays in regard to same. I have sent them a fax today informing them of your dissatisfaction and I would hope that they will act upon same immediately.

You can of course go ahead with making an application via either the Small Claims procedure or Arbitration ( Small claims has the lowest costs ) in the interim.

I will however endeavor to bring this matter to a close as soon as possible.

Thanking you for your co-operation.

Yours faithfully,

Cara Palmer.
Customer Care.
If I take a case to the Small Clairms Court should it be against Toolin or Panorama?
 
Keep e-mailing, keep calling. Pop in when ever you are down that direction.
Surely the 8 weeks to deal with the situation began when you lodged your first complaint.
If you desire, contact Panorama direct, ask the have they receive a Rep's report about our complaint. At least this way you know that the is a report about your complaint.

Though what you may receive may not compensate you as much as the effort you put in, it will be invaluable experience if anything happens again.
 
Just thought I'd update this thread with how this is progressing.


I finally got a reply from Toolin Travel on October 4. They forwarded me a letter that they got from Panorama which basically said that Panorama had offered us alternative accommodation. As we refused this offer, there is nothing they could do for us. When I read this my temper hit the roof. I decided there and then that the Small Claims Court was the only way to deal with this (I should have gone to the Small Claims Court earlier, but with the kids going back to school, workload and family bereavement, I never got around to it).

I wrote back to Toolin and Panorama and informed them that I never refused to move. I pointed out to them that in my original complaint to Toolin I clearly stated that I was prepared to move but that I'd be looking for compensation as they were asking us to move from a 4 star resort to a 3 star resort. I also informed them that I was pursuing this through the Small Claims Court. I posted my Small Claims document at the same time as I sent my reply's to Toolin and Panorama.

Last Monday (October 17th) I received another letter from Panoram offering me €225 to cover the costs of the trips we took. I replied and politely told them to stick the offer wherever they felt was the best place to put it! I told them that I didn't want to hear from them anymore and was leaving it up to the Small Claims Court clerk to decide. I expect to hear something in the next few weeks and will let you know the outcome.
 
Hi there,

Just want to update you on this. The hearing date for the Small Claims Court was today.

In the past few weeks I got offers of €600 and €850 from Panorama to settle. I refused both. I attended the Small Claims Court today and the judge awarded me 50% of the holiday price:D. This was my first time to go through this process and I was surprised at how long it took but it was worth it in the end.

To clarify some previous points:
1. The case was taken against Panorama and not Toolin Travel.
2. Any comments that I made about the delay in Toolin Travel getting back to me in previous posts were not deliberate on the part of Toolin. They followed up with me when they got a response from Panorama.
 
I think this highlights the problem of packages and indirect travel. Last summer we had huge problems from clients and friends who were over in Croatia. They had lost luggage on flights, 12 hour delays (with no assistance and support while sitting in an airport for all the time) and 1 instance of lying to someone about their booking, being caught out, putting them onto a flight into an airport 400kms away, promising to organise a free lift to their original destination, then double crossing them and trying to drop them off in the middle of nowhere. All the bookings went through one very solid tour agency, but they were getting the seats off the aforementioned Concorde, whose on the ground and process were awful. So for us to get recompense we couldn't shoot the messenger, we'd to go after the crowd who were meant to be in charge!
 
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