Urban Myth: Fraudsters flew in to claim dole payments

cerberos · 2 Jul 2009

Officials were so alarmed they ordered residency checks on a further 3,665 non-nationals, and found that 403 (11pc) of these were living outside the State and flying in once a month to collect their benefit.

Don't be alarmed officials/fools - its an Urban Myth that this is going on.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fraudsters-flew-in-to-claim-dole-payments-1801725.html

keithrf900 · 2 Jul 2009

It would'nt surprise me if this is happening. Travelers have been doing this for years. Collecting the dole in Ireland and England so hoping on a cheap ryanair flight from where ever would not surprise me.

Nutso · 2 Jul 2009

This was definitely happening with some of our ex-employees, and they were reported for it.

z109 · 2 Jul 2009

There are a couple of things that make me wonder about this:
1. JB is as a result of paid stamp, so their entitlement to a payment is presumably not fraudulent.
2. Unless they were claiming rent or other living allowances, I don't see how they were either 'unavailable' or 'not actively seeking' work. The fact that they live a thousand miles away doesn't mean that they are unable to meet the qualification criteria for finding work here. No?

My point is that under EU law, social insurance paid in one country counts even if you are living in another EU country. Does that mean you have to sit around in the country that is paying you? Or can you move around?

What it would seem to point to, to me, is the need for a European wide social insurance tracking system...

cerberos · 2 Jul 2009

"My point is that under EU law, social insurance paid in one country counts even if you are living in another EU country. Does that mean you have to sit around in the country that is paying you? Or can you move around?"

Excellent point - can we actually stop them or is it like the childrens allowance going to families that never ever entered Ireland?

My guess is FF will cut all SW payments and ALL will suffer.

Especially the wave of people just finishing their 12 months of JS allowance.

csirl · 2 Jul 2009

My point is that under EU law, social insurance paid in one country counts even if you are living in another EU country. Does that mean you have to sit around in the country that is paying you? Or can you move around?

Not strictly correct. Under EU law, you claim social welfare in the country you live in. Stamps paid in another country transfer with you when you move country. So, the unemployed non-Irish who are living outside Ireland, but paid social insurance in Ireland are entitled to claim unemployment benefit in their own countries at the rates which apply in their own countries.

z109 · 2 Jul 2009

I agree with you csirl that those are the rules as implemented, but are they correct?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31971R1408:EN:HTML

Whereas, in order to secure mobility of labour under improved conditions,it is necessary henceforth to ensure closer co-ordination between the unemployment insurance schemes and the unemployment assistance schemes of all the Member States; whereas it is therefore particularly appropriate, in order to facilitate search for employment in the various Member States, to grant to an unemployed worker, for a limited period, the unemployment benefits provided for by the legislation of the Member State to which he was last subject;

Article 19
Residence in a Member State other than the competent State - General rules
1. A worker residing in the territory of a Member State other than the competent State, who satisfies the conditions of the legislation of the competent State for entitlement to benefits, taking account where appropriate of the provisions of Article 18, shall receive in the State in which he is resident:
(a) benefits in kind provided on behalf of the competent institution by the institution of the place of residence in accordance with the legislation administered by that institution as though he were insured with it;
(b) cash benefits provided by the competent institution in accordance with the legislation which it administers. However, by agreement between the competent institution and the institution of the place of residence, such benefits may be provided by the latter institution on behalf of the former, in accordance with the legislation of the competent State.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 (a) shall apply by analogy to members of the family who are residing in the territory of a Member State other than the competent State, where they are not entitled to such benefits under the legislation of the State in whose territory they reside.

Now, while by the second provision it looks as though the payments should be claimed in the current residence country, it looks like UB should be paid at the Irish rate?

Urban Myth: Fraudsters flew in to claim dole payments

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Urban Myth: Fraudsters flew in to claim dole payments

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