UK and Irish driving licences held simultaneously

[NoRegretsCoyote]

While you may be right, why would Brexit have any relevance to data sharing between Ireland and the UK, why would they not continue on as before?

It's a good question so I looked it up. There is an EU directive on driving licenses

5.
(a)
No person may hold more than one driving licence;
(b)
A Member State shall refuse to issue a licence where it establishes that the applicant already holds a driving licence;
(c)
Member States shall take the necessary measures pursuant to point (b). The necessary measures as regards the issue, replacement, renewal or exchange of a driving licence shall be to verify with other Member States where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that the applicant is already the holder of another driving licence;
(d)
In order to facilitate the checks pursuant to point (b), Member States shall use the EU driving licence network once it is operational.
Without prejudice to Article 2, a Member State issuing a licence shall apply due diligence to ensure that a person fulfils the requirements set out in paragraph 1 of this Article and shall apply its national provisions on the cancellation or withdrawal of the right to drive if it is established that a licence has been issued without the requirements having been met.

As you can see no one is allowed to hold two EU licenses at the same time, and EU member states have to share information to ensure that someone applying for a license in one member sate cannot hold one in another already. There is no legal basis for this automatic cooperation anymore now that the UK is not an EU member. I cannot see any reference to this in the EU-UK withdrawal agreement.

This FAQ from the NDLS has some details. It simply says that UK licenses can be (and should be) exchanged for an Irish one of the holder moves to the Republic.

Post Brexit, as an Irish license holder I can't see a reason why you can't apply for a UK license (including sitting a test) once you are UK resident.

 

[TLO]

Does this mean that someone who is tax resident in ROI, but owns and keeps a vehicle in NI, cannot drive the NI registered vehicle in ROI?

If so, I'm not aware of this and think it would be difficult to enforce.

Correct. Someone who is tax resident in ROI, but owns and keeps a vehicle in NI, cannot drive the NI registered vehicle in ROI.

If someone does, they risk being challenged by an Officer of the Revenue Commissioners or An Garda Síochána.

The correct approach is to "re-register" the NI vehicle in ROI and pay the VRT on it.

 

[lomber]

Correct. Someone who is tax resident in ROI, but owns and keeps a vehicle in NI, cannot drive the NI registered vehicle in ROI.

If someone does, they risk being challenged by an Officer of the Revenue Commissioners or An Garda Síochána.

The correct approach is to "re-register" the NI vehicle in ROI and pay the VRT on it.

Although if one has a NI licence then likely unless its a high level /high profile car with alot of VRT eg Porsche/ Range Rover etc then likely the effort involved means that you should get away with it. The car can also be reexported if impounded. One always has the option of that I believe.
I dont recommend it as its quite possible the insurance would be invalid unless they agree to insure you while non resident.

 

[TLO]

Yes, you'll get away with it a lot of the time. But it's always at the most inconvenient time, when you're least expecting it, that you'll be stopped, and the vehicle impounded on the spot.

 

[T McGibney]

Correct. Someone who is tax resident in ROI, but owns and keeps a vehicle in NI, cannot drive the NI registered vehicle in ROI.

If someone does, they risk being challenged by an Officer of the Revenue Commissioners or An Garda Síochána.

The correct approach is to "re-register" the NI vehicle in ROI and pay the VRT on it.

I don't mean to pick hairs but I don't think tax residence per se has anything to do with it. "Currently tax resident" does not automatically mean the same as "currently resident."

 

[Leo]

Although if one has a NI licence then likely

If they're resident in ROI then the NI license is invalid potentially attracting a £1,000 fine.

 

[lomber]

Exactly , tax residence and residence are two different things. For example for insurance you need to be currently resident and thats the thing Id be most worried about rather than a few k in vrt.

 

[lomber]

I dont think a Ni license is invalid at any point if you dont live there. For example if a Ni resident goes on holiday are they resident or not ? Tax residence is much more defined to protect revenue streams.

 

[Leo]

I dont think a Ni license is invalid at any point if you dont live there. For example if a Ni resident goes on holiday are they resident or not ? Tax residence is much more defined to protect revenue streams.

If you go on a 2 week holiday to Spain, do you really tell people you are living in Spain?

As I've said, it is law in the UK that you must update your address if you move with the exception of students temporarily living away from home. This comes up in the media from time to time after people who were unaware get hit with hefty fines.

 

[lomber]

If you go on a 2 week holiday to Spain, do you really tell people you are living in Spain?

As I've said, it is law in the UK that you must update your address if you move with the exception of students temporarily living away from home. This comes up in the media from time to time after people who were unaware get hit with hefty fines.

A 1000 fine isnt a big deal though. Lets say one has a third party claim of say 60k and the legal fees are another 60 so thats 120 and if the insurers pay and come after you for 120 Id be more worried than a nominal 1k fine.
Ditto with car being impounded, one could just pay a shipping broker to remove it from Ireland. No big deal.
Also I had a UK license and lived in Ireland for something like 9 years. Ive swapped it now as technically I couldnt renew as not resident there. Theres a whole thing around renewal as technically a UK license is valid until 75 but one needs to update the dvla with a picture and confirm address .The dvla cant accept an Irish address. They only want you to update if its a UK address. I was drving totally legally and my insurers were fine with a UK license for years. I could have just carried on though and it would be fine. Obviously Brexit may or may not have changed that. I swapped back in 2019 and originally traded my Irish for a UK years ago.

 

[Leo]

A 1000 fine isnt a big deal though. Lets say one has a third party claim of say 60k and the legal fees are another 60 so thats 120 and if the insurers pay and come after you for 120 Id be more worried than a nominal 1k fine.

Yes, in the event of someone chasing you for £120k, £1k isn't all that significant, but why choose an extremely rare scenario? How about assume you're not being chased for 120k, would you consider a £1k fine nominal?

Ditto with car being impounded, one could just pay a shipping broker to remove it from Ireland. No big deal.

Are you suggesting they would steal it from the impound lot? Once it's impounded you have to resolve all outstanding issues before a broker is allowed to remove it. Saying it is to be exported does not resolve that, though you could later officially export it and seek refund of the residual VRT.

The dvla cant accept an Irish address. They only want you to update if its a UK address.

It's nothing to do with what they want, it's what the law says they must do.

They only want you to update if its a UK address. I was drving totally legally and my insurers were fine with a UK license for years. I could have just carried on though and it would be fine. Obviously Brexit may or may not have changed that.

Brexit clearly changed that, the UK are no longer an EU member, so the benefit of being able to retain and legitimately use a license from another member state no longer applies.

 

[lomber]

Yes, in the event of someone chasing you for £120k, £1k isn't all that significant, but why choose an extremely rare scenario? How about assume you're not being chased for 120k, would you consider a £1k fine nominal?


Are you suggesting they would steal it from the impound lot? Once it's impounded you have to resolve all outstanding issues before a broker is allowed to remove it. Saying it is to be exported does not resolve that, though you could later officially export it and seek refund of the residual VRT.


It's nothing to do with what they want, it's what the law says they must do.

Brexit clearly changed that, the UK are no longer an EU member, so the benefit of being able to retain and legitimately use a license from another member state no longer applies.

Technically if a car is presented for Vrt one can decline and export the car within x period from the state, so it could be presented,and then declined
The 1000 fine is nominal and has little chance of being applied imho. In any case monthly mortgages and rents are around 2k a month for life(Mort-death age)
When I looked at it you can send the DVLA a foreign address but they have no way to apply that, thats their problem not mine per se.

 

[Leo]

Technically if a car is presented for Vrt one can decline and export the car within x period from the state, so it could be presented,and then declined
The 1000 fine is nominal and has little chance of being applied imho. In any case monthly mortgages and rents are around 2k a month for life(Mort-death age)

Hold on, you were talking about a car being impounded, what has bringing it for an VRT appointment have to do with it being impounded?

£1,000 being one of the largest motoring related fines is clearly not nominal. It is 10 times the standard speeding fine. Why persist with the straw men? Houses cost hundreds of thousands, are you saying your car cost that?

When I looked at it you can send the DVLA a foreign address but they have no way to apply that, thats their problem not mine per se.

They have no way of applying a foreign address because the legislation does not allow them to. Funny how you see their not being able to circumvent the law as their problem!

 

[lomber]

Hold on, you were talking about a car being impounded, what has bringing it for an VRT appointment have to do with it being impounded?

£1,000 being one of the largest motoring related fines is clearly not nominal. It is 10 times the standard speeding fine. Why persist with the straw men? Houses cost hundreds of thousands, are you saying your car cost that?

They have no way of applying a foreign address because the legislation does not allow them to. Funny how you see their not being able to circumvent the law as their problem!

I did it for 9 years. My friend has done it for 25 (mum lives in NI and he a ROI resident) Hes never even updated photograph so who knows if license even valid ( I believe it is not like a Irish license , the license is valid until somomething like 70 or 75)
No idea post Brexit if he swapped it. Im not advocating doing anything as long as you tell the insurer the truth.
I was in the States and how is it Ive never passed any test there and my license is valid?
Re Vrt, its like road tax, if you havent got any they can impound your car but they cant make you pay your allowed to tow the car out of there. With vrt likely ditto the car must be mechanically propelled to vrt it. Unless theres legislation forbidding you then you could either tow it out or present it,then decline the vrt and remove it from the State or as you suggested vrt it and then claim residual vrt on export.
I actually remember a case and the individuals car was impouded and to remove it he had to give a legal undertaking to vrt it in order to release it. So that means, present it for vrt, decline it and remove it from the State.

 

[Leo]

I did it for 9 years. My friend has done it for 25 (mum lives in NI and he a ROI resident) Hes never even updated photograph so who knows if license even valid ( I believe it is not like a Irish license , the license is valid until somomething like 70 or 75)

UK law says the details must be correct for the license to be valid. Like most things motoring. there's no problem until you come to the authorities attention for something else.

No idea post Brexit if he swapped it. Im not advocating doing anything as long as you tell the insurer the truth.

That really is key, as in the event of an accident, they will check all the details and may deny you any cover, and that could be horrendously expensive if there are 3rd party injuries claims.

I actually remember a case and the individuals car was impouded and to remove it he had to give a legal undertaking to vrt it in order to release it. So that means, present it for vrt, decline it and remove it from the State.

Are you suggesting breaching a legal undertaking is a good course of action?

 

[Leo]

UK law may say what it does but if they cant accept a foreign address that is their problem.The details are correct,that is the last UK known address(according to UK legislation) therefore the license is valid.

I presume you are deliberately being obtuse now. Read the legislation. Where does it say that the last known UK address is sufficient for a license to be valid?

Im suggesting that Irish law entitles someone to remove the car from the country and decline Vrt thats just exercising their right.

I'm suggesting it appears you don't really know the law here.

 

[Leo]

I actually do know the law and it has to be defined and agreed in advance. As it isnt defined then its out of the 'net'

If you know the law, why were you ignorant of the requirements for addresses to be maintained current?

Ive Vrted several cars and one does have the option of removing the car from the State per their own law.

The scenario you spoke of was after a car was impounded. Do you understand this is a very different scenario than presenting a car for VRT shortly after importing it?

 

[Leo]

If I sent them my Irish address and they couldnt update that how is that my problem?

It's quite simple really, the fact that you supplied an invalid address for a UK license is quite clearly your problem.

Honestly I am unsure of what happens on impound, there are some cases on tax appeals commission on vrt if your very interested.

You seemed pretty sure that you could simply export the car a earlier!

 

[Leo]

You didnt answer if a homeless persons license in the UK is invalid? I

I provided a link to the legislation, read it for yourself.

I am sure you can export the car without payment after impounding. The car can simply not be mechanically propelled on the States roads . It can be freely towed out of there unless theres legislation to the opposite which Im unaware of. If there isnt then a court order may be needed or a solicitors letter.

You may be sure, but you are wrong. Go take a look at a release form, they require evidence that all outstanding issues have been resolved before they will release the car.

Im guessing that they want you to sign an undertaking to present it(per my reading of vrt cases a while ago on tac),

Again, you're just guessing and conflating two separate processes. The option to decline to register a vehicle is not the same as releasing an impounded car.