Title Deeds - have Land Certificate only, how to replace missing support documents

[circularrd]

Estate house, bought in 1979, located in Dublin. Having cleared the mortgage the bank returned just the Land Certificate. We are considering selling and our solicitor said that we would need various documents eg. evidence of compliance with planning permissions, site maps, house plans etc. Despite an exhaustive search the bank cannot locate any supporting documents.

Our solicitor says we need to employ an architect or engineer to investigate whatever planning/measurements/mapping etc issues are involved so as to ensure everything is in order. Around 1982 the builder was still on site and we extended over the garage under an overall estate planning permission which gave that option. However we have no paperwork for this so may need to apply for retention. We will need someone who is familiar with old planning requirements and possibly having to re-measure and draw maps of the site and house? I think an architect is what we need and would appreciate hearing from anyone who may have experience in the area.

 

[Bluecup]

I don't have experience of this but as a start could you pull the original development planning permission from the council archives? You can then make a copy of the relevant parts related to the garage extention option. These would be useful for any certificate of compliance you need down the road.

 

[circularrd]

Thanks for that Bluecup, sound advice .. as it's so long ago and Fingal district (where we are) didn't exist then, I need a professional's help.

 

[Johnno75]

On a side issue. If it is the case that the financial institution lost the original accompanying title deeds, keep a record of the costs to you of having to reconstruct the title documents as I would be billing them for this cost. Or suing them in default.

 

[circularrd]

For sure Johnno75! I'm waiting their response on this as we speak.

 

[Leo]

keep a record of the costs to you of having to reconstruct the title documents as I would be billing them for this cost. Or suing them in default.

You're assuming there's some proof the bank did have them... Lots can happen in 40 years.

 

[Johnno75]

You're assuming there's some proof the bank did have them... Lots can happen in 40 years.

That’s true. I was basing my view on the assumption that there was a mortgage in which event the bank would have the deeds. Unless they were released to the borrower’s solicitor or some other authorised third party on accountable trust receipt.

 

[Leo]

That’s true. I was basing my view on the assumption that there was a mortgage in which event the bank would have the deeds. Unless they were released to the borrower’s solicitor or some other authorised third party on accountable trust receipt.

There's been a few stories along those lines here over the years. Bank thinks the solicitors have them, solicitors think the bank has them, no one with proof.

 

[Johnno75]

There's been a few stories along those lines here over the years. Bank thinks the solicitors have them, solicitors think the bank has them, no one with proof.

There’s a rule of thumb in litigation. When in doubt as to who committed the wrong, sue them both and let them argue it out.

 

[mf1]

Going back to OP's post..............

On the grounds that seeking to apportion fault does not reconstitute title, I'd advise the following:

Talk to neighbours and see if any of them have their Title Deeds at home and would be willing to check them and provide copies of the planning paperwork. If yes, take copies of the Planning Permission(s) and Opinions on Compliance.

A helpful neighbour may be willing to take their Deeds up, through their own solicitor, if no-one has their Deeds at home.

This is a long shot but, assuming the then acting architect is still in practice, ask them to provide an Opinion on Compliance.

If that long shot doesn't work, most solicitors have a standby Architect colleague that they work with who assists in these types of situation.

Or, next step is to talk to a local architect (preferably someone who has been around for yonks and possibly knows the development) who can review the PP and decide if they are willing to certify that the works, including the over garage works, comply with the original planning permission.

mf

 

[circularrd]

Going back to OP's post..............

On the grounds that seeking to apportion fault does not reconstitute title, I'd advise the following:

Talk to neighbours and see if any of them have their Title Deeds at home and would be willing to check them and provide copies of the planning paperwork. If yes, take copies of the Planning Permission(s) and Opinions on Compliance.

A helpful neighbour may be willing to take their Deeds up, through their own solicitor, if no-one has their Deeds at home.

This is a long shot but, assuming the then acting architect is still in practice, ask them to provide an Opinion on Compliance.

If that long shot doesn't work, most solicitors have a standby Architect colleague that they work with who assists in these types of situation.

Or, next step is to talk to a local architect (preferably someone who has been around for yonks and possibly knows the development) who can review the PP and decide if they are willing to certify that the works, including the over garage works, comply with the original planning permission.

mf

Regarding Leo's post yes there was a mortgage, deeds were not released on ATR. The bank held them for c.40 years and we have proof although they say they only got the Land Cert...uncharted territory for me but under active discussion!

Thanks mf1 ... great suggestion which I will certainly follow up especially the idea of a locally based architect. Our neighbours will certainly help if they can..they are our friends too.