R
Good article on the Irish Indo website on the complete unaffordability of benchmarking:
http://www.independent.ie/national-...enchmarking-atm-still-delivering-2461140.html
It's now almost 10 years since the productivity improvements were promised, but despite this, and the Croke park agreement, the returns just haven't been there.
Any new round of benchmarking should look at closing the gold plated defined benefit scheme, and dramatically reducing the number of holidays, flexi-days, and "travel" days at Easter and Christmas.
Its a step in the right direction for the government to threaten to impose more paycuts if efficiencies promised under the Croke park agreement are not delivered, but something more radical needs to be done.
Sen Joe O'Tooles free ATM needs to be restocked
The article you refer to is from December 2010 - why start a thread on it now?
A cynic might think that you're attempting to stoke up a public v private argument. This seems to be a favourite topic of yours if the following posts are anything to go by;
From 13/2/2011:
Scrap the Croke Park agreement
It's completely unaffordable, and stops the Government from imposing compulsory redundancies in non-jobs.
Stop all pay increments for TDs and all public servants for the next 24 months
During this time, a major review of pay increases linked to job performance could be developed to ensure that our top performing public servants get the pay rises they deserve, while the bottom quartile get nothing.
Also from 13/02/2011;
I don't think that the incoming government will have the luxury of honouring the generous terms in the Croke Park agreement hammered out between the cronies in the FF led government and their buddies in the greedy public sector unions.
Without their Labour Comrades on their back, FG should be in a good position to scrap the completely unaffordable Croke Park agreement and start a process of compulsory redundancies at the statuory minimum rates of payout.
Also from 13/02/2011;
I like their policy to cut the number of underworked back office staff in the civil service:
http://www.thejournal.ie/kenny-fg-wo...rvants-2011-2/
From 20/2/2011;
All the more reason why the first thing the new government should do is revisit the Croke Park agreement, and tell the public sector and teachers unions that the game is up lads. The ordinary private sector worker can't subsidise those sort of pensions forever
From 24/02/2011;
Not just in their 50's. All those who joined the public sector up until the December budget will benefit from gold plated pensions for decades to come, paid for by the good old private sector worker and small business man.
From 25/02/2011;
I think the "support" for the Croke Park agreement with quickly evaporate from within Government once the size of the challenge before the incoming regime becomes clear.
The salaries and pensions of the public sector cannot be sustained.
From 19/3/2011;
Don't forget the "flexi", and the annual pay increments given out to more than 95% of staff each year. What private sector company could afford that? Even if they could, its no motivation to maintain and improve performance. Increments should ony be offered to the top 50% of performers
Surely you can find a more recent anti-public sector article in the O'Reilly Daily News? As a civil servant I would LOVE to be benchmarked, for example, my "equivalent" in AIB/BOI, both of which paid out the first round of pay increases under the Towards 2016 agreement. Would increase my salary by the 14% cut I've taken plus 3% on top of that. I agree 100% with your proposal
In answer to your first line, my humble opinion is that there's a wee bit of trolling going on.
Interesting to note that that the average pay increase under benchmarking was an average of 8.9% whereas the Government have now taken back an average of 15% ![/QUOTE
I find this very this figure which is trotted out by Jack O'Connor et al pretty hard to believe - 8.9% over 10 years is nothing like what I was hearing from friends who work in the public service (including Mrs Roy) so I'd love to see the back up data if it is available which I doubt.
Roy
Interesting to note that that the average pay increase under benchmarking was an average of 8.9% whereas the Government have now taken back an average of 15% ![/QUOTE
I find this very this figure which is trotted out by Jack O'Connor et al pretty hard to believe - 8.9% over 10 years is nothing like what I was hearing from friends who work in the public service (including Mrs Roy) so I'd love to see the back up data if it is available which I doubt.
Roy
The increase of which you speak is a combination of increases under the various National Wage Agreements that pertained over the period of which you speak across all sectors allied to a benchmarking award which averaged 8.9 %.
The major portion of the increase is undoubtedly due to the NWA's rather than benchmarking .
Where I live the leisure centre, pool and gym are run by the local authority as are the libraries. Being Ireland and people are off for a long bank holiday they may wish to visit the pool or get some books from the library.
But not to be. All closed from Friday to Tuesday. What a set up !!!
You had me rushing to the dictionary there Horusd - " sceloric unions " !
I also think that the Croke Park Agreement shows an acceptance that reform is required , I know that there have been issues regarding privilege days & more recently disturbance money in the Cork area of the HSE both of which were dealt with by the arbitration process - the media however I feel would have us think that the Unions are being obstructive by using this agreed process !
Ok,so lets say this is the truth,we need to ask why this would be the case,and I would hazzard a guess that they know that if they dared to do so,they would be given short shrift..otherwise what this means is that almost every manager in the PS does not deal effectively with people,does not endeavor to improve performanance, and does not implement discplinary means..that they fail to lead ,to inspire to operate accountable systems..so are you saying that this is the case,are you now saying that there are in fact people who do not do their jobs efectivily and if so why are none of them sacked?Some who argue for the PS to be run along private sector lines blame the workers where the real problem is often the senior management who consistently fail to perform. Fail to lead, fail to inspire, fail to operate accountable systems. I know a top manager in the PS. He hardly breaks his neck working, despite his incredible salary & pension. I would be embarassed to be paid so much and do so little.
I think that there seems to be the perception that its all the fault of management for example;
Deiseblue;.
Ok,so lets say this is the truth,we need to ask why this would be the case,and I would hazzard a guess that they know that if they dared to do so,they would be given short shrift..otherwise what this means is that almost every manager in the PS does not deal effectively with people,does not endeavor to improve performanance, and does not implement discplinary means..that they fail to lead ,to inspire to operate accountable systems..so are you saying that this is the case,are you now saying that there are in fact people who do not do their jobs efectivily and if so why are none of them sacked?
Are there no sanctions to deal with them?
I would be very interested to hear why you think the managers do not do any of the things you mention..
.
Hi DB - the "arbitration" process is a joke. The issue of privilage days went there an the wise men decided that celebrating some 19th century English monarchs birthday with a privilige day was not appropriate anymore. So what did they do? - The decided to cancel the privilige days and add the same amount to the formal holidays.
Roy
Hi DB - the "arbitration" process is a joke. The issue of privilage days went there an the wise men decided that celebrating some 19th century English monarchs birthday with a privilige day was not appropriate anymore. So what did they do? - The decided to cancel the privilige days and add the same amount to the formal holidays.
And what about the decision by the wise men to make a decision which meant govt researchers were awarded lump sums of €15k for every €10k saved when they claimed they needed to be compensated for loss of overtime - this when the country is bankrupt... it's no wonder the Germans consider the Iris to be shysters.
And while I'm at it - check out the average cost of employing someone in the LRC / Labour Court or EAT - it's hardly in their interests to fthe Govt to take a serious look at PS pay.....
By the way - you comments about all those agreements not being anything to do with benchmarking.........it was all the same Ahern scam - why did Charlie McCreevy insist that all documentation relating to benchmarking be destroyed once the awards were made....
Roy
As to the salaries paid to the highly qualified employees who staff the various Labour arbitration bodies I have no problem with same - it must be a hugely difficult & stressful job dealing with increasingly confrontational issues.
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